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Target's Data Breach Started With an HVAC Account

samzenpus posted about 3 months ago | from the sneaking-in dept.

Security 232

Jim Hall writes "Security blogger Krebs reports that Target's data breach started with a stolen HVAC account. Last week, Target said the initial intrusion into its systems was traced back to network credentials that were stolen from a third party vendor. Sources now claim that the vendor in question was a refrigeration, heating and air conditioning subcontractor that has worked at a number of locations at Target and other top retailers. Attackers stole network credentials from Fazio Mechanical Services, then used that to gain access to Target's network. It's not immediately clear why Target would have given an HVAC company external network access, or why that access would not be cordoned off from Target's payment system network."

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232 comments

beta? (-1, Offtopic)

Iniamyen (2440798) | about 3 months ago | (#46178229)

/* This space reserved for thousands of whiny basement-dwellers fucking the cheese, or something like that */




Please mod down in advance, thanks.

Re:beta? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178245)

/* This space reserved for thousands of whiny basement-dwellers fucking the cheese, or something like that */

// Are you suggesting that it took thousands of Beta developers to perform unnatural acts upon a wheel of Swiss Cheese?

You have reserved a lot of space for that. (0, Offtopic)

dccase (56453) | about 3 months ago | (#46178325)

With the beta you can only see 3 or 4 whiny replies per page on a big screen.
No way I'm scrolling through thousands of them.

I don't think I could be arsed to read through many good ones either.

Buh Bye

P.S. It automatically ate my line breaks. Funny it wants to save space by removing actual message formatting.

Re:You have reserved a lot of space for that. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178393)

Here, use this:

http://slashdot.org/?nobeta=1

it IS immediately clear (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178233)

Well, the beta sucks, but to the article's point, Target wasn't following PCI guidelines.

"...as we migrate our audience..." (-1, Offtopic)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | about 3 months ago | (#46178235)

That's the problem right there.

Dear DICE:
We're not "your audience", we're your CONTRIBUTERS. You're just the chalkboard we have our discussions on. Shut the fuck up, display a few ads, and stay the fuck out of the way.

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178301)

Do you actually pay to use slashdot or are you complaining about a service you use freely that is no longer up to your high standards?

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (4, Insightful)

dmomo (256005) | about 3 months ago | (#46178341)

There are readers and contributors. Slashdot acknowledges some people as meaningful contributors by allowing them to disable ads. So, yes. We contributors ARE paying to use the site by offering our content. We're not giving the content for free, we get compensated in the form of a site that lives up to our high standards. So, when the compensation fails to be adequate, we must be vocal. We understand that we can stop using the "free" site at any time. We become vocal in hopes it doesn't have to come to that.

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178417)

Well, aren't you just an entitled little shit.

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (4, Insightful)

wjwlsn (94460) | about 3 months ago | (#46178769)

Well, aren't you just an entitled little shit.

Do you not understand his argument, or are you really just an asshole? The value of Slashdot that keeps old-timers coming back, and brings new people in, is the content... and virtually all of that content is created and moderated by the users. Yes, the site itself is valuable as well, but only because it enables a certain style of discussion and fosters a particular kind of community, all built around that user content.

When the site no longer enables the discussion and fosters the community that is Slashdot, it ceases having any value. People will leave. The quantity, quality, and very nature of the content will change... and as that continues, more people will leave. Now you're into a potentially unstoppable death spiral, and whatever remains will be just a pale image of the greatness that once existed.

Do you expect us to keep our mouths shut? We don't want to see Slashdot die! Even if an alternative pops up somewhere, it won't have all the history that this site has. Losing all of that will be tragic.

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (5, Informative)

arth1 (260657) | about 3 months ago | (#46178437)

Do you actually pay to use slashdot or are you complaining about a service you use freely that is no longer up to your high standards?

We pay in two ways. Well, three, if you include those that pay directly. But otherwise, we pay by contributing, and we pay by watching ads.

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178499)

Where do people get this strange notion that the hosters of free services should never receive negative feedback?

They provide the service for free because they want people to use it (usually for ad revenue, though there are other motivations). If people don't like it, they won't use it. Providing negative feedback informs the providers that something is driving users away, which suggests changes that could increase usage, which is ultimately what the provider wants.

Receiving something for free does not negate one's right to complain about it.
 

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (4, Insightful)

Soulskill (1459) | about 3 months ago | (#46178619)

Receiving something for free does not negate one's right to complain about it.

This is very true. Please keep the feedback coming. The more constructive, the better.

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178721)

The Beta is harder to read and harder to comment on.
There is too much whitespace, and not enough text.
Has anyone seen even one single thing you could count as an improvement?
Let's assume the Slashcott really takes off. Will that be enough for your corporate overlords to abandon this ill-conceived project?

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (4, Informative)

arth1 (260657) | about 3 months ago | (#46178729)

This is very true. Please keep the feedback coming. The more constructive, the better.

Kill Slashdot Beta and start from scratch.
That is a constructive suggestion, and absolutely doable.

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (1)

Teancum (67324) | about 3 months ago | (#46178573)

Do you actually pay to use slashdot or are you complaining about a service you use freely that is no longer up to your high standards?

You do realize that even subscribers to Slashdot are getting the shaft here too? Some people actually are paying for Slashdot, so shut the F*** up about this kind of reasoning and learn a bit about what people are complaining about.

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (2)

Magic5Ball (188725) | about 3 months ago | (#46178663)

There's a lot of hate from Anonymous Coward for critics of beta.

I hope this isn't Dice astroturfing their own site.

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (1)

plopez (54068) | about 3 months ago | (#46178689)

Freely? We do get marketed to. See the ads scattered all over /.

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178697)

I 'pay' by being fed ads.

This "protest" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178435)

This "protest" is generating quite a few page views.

just say'in.

Re:This "protest" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178529)

Until the Slashcott next week.

Re:This "protest" (1)

Iamthecheese (1264298) | about 3 months ago | (#46178647)

Indeed, and if Dice can't see past the next three months they may see that as desirable. Discussion boards like Slashdot need their contributors WAY more then the contributors need them. Remember what happened when Digg ignored their users? If Dice wants Slashdot for its large number of techies the dumbest thing they can do is to drive away said techies.

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (0)

dmomo (256005) | about 3 months ago | (#46178459)

That will soon change to "as our audience migrates away". This needs more attention outside of the moderators' control. Continue over at reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/social... [reddit.com]

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178557)

Here is Dice's "Contact Us" page. [diceholdingsinc.com] Everybody be sure to call them tomorrow using whatever numbers from that page you can get to ring. Tell every darn receptionist in every darn one of Dice's holdings, along with anyone you can get them to connect you to, that the Slashdot beta is terrible and you won't shut up until it goes away. Fax them a well-illustrated complaint or two or three. Send them a choice letter via snail mail, along with whatever memorabilia you wish.

They keep soliciting our feedback, they can get our feedback, right where it counts.

Spread the word by mentioning this in every article's comments.

The most obvious contact points are:

Dice Holdings Inc.
1040 Avenue of the Americas, 8th Floor
New York, NY 10018
T: 212-725-6550
F: 212-725-6559

Slashdot
594 Howard St Suite 300
San Francisco, CA 94105
Tel: +1-877-433-5638
www.slashdot.com

capcha = wretch !!

Fuck the Beta (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178547)

Visit the Wiki at http://altslashdot.org/
Come on IRC channel #slashdot at irc.slashnet.org. Or use the web client: http://www.slashnet.org/webclient
We can rebuild this site anew!

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178553)

Dear Dice:
I am the audience. I read more than I contribute. I've been coming here a long time and have learned a great deal, even to the point I can once in a blue moon contribute. I've even clicked a couple ads. If the contributors leave so will I, I'll follow. Spot on, this is just a chalkboard. Sites come and go. It's a pity to see Slashdot devolve, but it happens. On the bright side Dice, you'll still have your chalkboard and chalk.

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (3, Informative)

Soulskill (1459) | about 3 months ago | (#46178649)

Believe me, there's no confusion about the immensity of the community's contribution to the site.

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (3, Informative)

onyxruby (118189) | about 3 months ago | (#46178783)

Than why are you pulling a microsoft and ignoring your community? Your community /is/ your product. Like microsoft forcing metro with Windows 8 the beta site isnt functional and you insist on ignoring the very hands that feed you. Without your community slashdot is just another has been website.

Re:"...as we migrate our audience..." (1)

EL_mal0 (777947) | about 3 months ago | (#46178805)

The thing that is most frustrating to me is that is seems that many of the complaints brought up when the Beta first went public [slashdot.org] persist. Looking back at the feedback in that comment section, there are a lot of specific criticisms of the site. It wasn't general complaining, but pointing out stuff that should be fixed. Lots of that went ignored.

I wrote an email back in October with some feedback, and I wrote another today. The company has had five months to fix some pretty basic things and listen to feedback. It didn't.

It might be time to move on.

fuck beta (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178239)

fuck it to hell.

Car Analogy Time! (2, Funny)

sinij (911942) | about 3 months ago | (#46178241)

If Beta was hot grits, then Natalie Portman would be driving Beowulf cluster of HUGOs!

Re:Car Analogy Time! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178703)

I got your car analogy right here:

Hating on beta is like that guy who just bought a new Volkswagon. Most folks do not care about Volkswagons and are not even all that familiar with them, but there is a large minority who love them beyond reason. They need to drag the Volkswagon brand into every conversation regardless as to whether or not it is germane or anyone cares one whit. It gets old and tedious, and you just wish they would just shut the fuck up and get over themselves.

I never thought about it like this but Volkswagon is the Apple of car manufacturers.

Network segmentation (5, Insightful)

Dan East (318230) | about 3 months ago | (#46178247)

why Target would have given an HVAC company external network access, or why that access would not be cordoned off from Target's payment system network

Because they have just one big unified network for everything. That probably saves them money, unless something really bad were to happen...

Re:Network segmentation (4, Insightful)

bjwest (14070) | about 3 months ago | (#46178313)

My guess is because IT is not given control over security, not listened to and told to "just do it" when they try to point out the security problems during planning. Butt you can bet your ass they're the one blamed when all hell breaks in.

Re:Network segmentation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178331)

Buck Feta!

Re:Network segmentation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178383)

Cheap Greek Cheese!

how about PCI compliance (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178335)

It might be "easier" to run a unified network but that doesn't explain why they ignored PCI laws.

It's good thing to remember as they take you (the target CTO) off to prison.

PCI isn't law (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178797)

PCI is a compliance issue, not law. The payment card industry will just make you pay more for your credit card transactions if you're not compliant.

PCI also widely open to interpretation so it isn't exactly a standard. I worked for a company that implemented PCI on it's own product. We always had PCI "auditors" or "experts" who claimed we were not compliant. Once we made them read the document, they shut up. Who knows who Target hired for PCI compliance? You can have unencrypted credit card go over https and that's compliant. You can have it behind a firewall and that's, you guessed it, compliant.

The real problem is that PCI puts the onus on retailer to make cards safe when it's up to the payment card industry to make their cards and transactions more secure. It's a B.S. standard that only places a band-aid on the real problem.

Analytics (1, Interesting)

Etherwalk (681268) | about 3 months ago | (#46178427)

They probably have it all on one network so they can easily correlate the data. HVAC settings will influence purchases and a smart store is dynamically setting temperature to maximize sales volume, although within certain constraints.

Re:Analytics (2)

Nos. (179609) | about 3 months ago | (#46178733)

It doesn't have to be on the same network to easily correlate data.
You pull from many locations to one to correlate data.

Re:Network segmentation (4, Insightful)

mlts (1038732) | about 3 months ago | (#46178453)

In most companies, someone poking around would have their access clamped shut by an internal IPS, with SMS messages going out to admins via the IDS.

I'm sure there has to be a perfectly justifiable way to explain this, but almost any corporate network tends to be well segmented, with finance being the most locked down of any area [1]. Unless the internal fabric got compromised, this shouldn't have happened unless it was an attack with a lot of collusion from parties inside the organization.

[1]: One place I worked at had the machines in finance completely disconnected from the Internet, and were separated from each other (no file sharing possible unless going through the company servers.) If people wanted to browse the Web, they used Citrix receivers and a terminal server, which was configured to not let files in or out. Said machines were not just locked down via AD, but used both BitLocker (to keep the machines from being booted from other media) and DeepFreeze [2] to help ensure that if malware did get on the boxes, it wouldn't persist. All data was stored on remote machines. So far, AFIAK, these precautions did a good job at keeping bad guys out.

[2]: DeepFreeze isn't 100%, but it does come in handy as an additional tool for a locked down environment to keep things clean.

#insert

Re:Network segmentation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178539)

If they were PCI compliant this would not be possible there is no way that there is a "justifiable" explanation. At a minimum they and whoever does their audits should have their authorization to process cards and perform PCI audits respectively pulled... not that this is likely to happen.

Re:Network segmentation (2)

mlts (1038732) | about 3 months ago | (#46178799)

Maybe I've not seen an example of this, but there is a point where a I've not seen any meaningful enforcement of these regulations, be it PCI-DSS3, HIPAA, FERPA, Sarbanes-Oxley, or others. For example, from what has been shown in previous examples, PCI is almost a joke and given lip service at best. Tokenization of card numbers? Yeah, right.

Are these laws even relevant these days, since they don't seem to be actually heeded?

I wonder about replacing the existing penalties with taxes. A firm can ignore a regulation, but what would happen is a tax would kick in at a stiff percentage of their net worth or overall revenue (not profit, as that can be easily messed around with.) So, if a firm wants to leave credit card numbers in the clear, great... they will end up taxed to oblivion.

In MY experience ... (1)

khasim (1285) | about 3 months ago | (#46178543)

I have gone through this exact same "logic" at places where I've worked. It's impossible to explain to some people that ... while the person putting in X may be completely honest you are depending upon that person to have as good security practices as you have.

Except that that person does not have any idea of what network security is. Or computer security.

But it will make it easier if vendors X, Y and Z have remote access to their systems which are on the production network.

It will be more difficult if we have to pay an ISP for the cheapest line they have and colour-code it and label it and super-glue it so that they have access but it does not touch the production network. At least not without someone coming in and physically re-wiring it.

Re: Network segmentation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178551)

i'm thinkin some repair guy need to print an invoice and some beta admin just gave him full access, cause that the way the real world works. kinda like giving carte blanche to your new beta development team. what could go wrong?

Re: Network segmentation (5, Insightful)

TWX (665546) | about 3 months ago | (#46178669)

HVAC now relies on controls that are themselves Ethernet devices. Those devices in turn need to be reachable over the computer network, and a third-party HVAC company that is paid to monitor and service the air conditioning will need access to those HVAC controllers and to EMS (Energy management system) controllers to do their work. Since the devices are components on the network that can authenticate via 802.1X, they'll need credentials both to be on the network and to allow that third party to VPN into the network to monitor them.

The stupid part is that the HVAC controllers were not vlanned off to their own segment, only connected to HVAC-monitoring computers and a VPN gateway for just this function, but given how congested IDFs are and how expensive the staff is to continually maintain vlans and associated ports, I'm not surprised at all that this happened.

Re:Network segmentation (2)

mythosaz (572040) | about 3 months ago | (#46178579)

It's not even necessarily that. The HVAC may or may not have had access into the "real" system, but it, at minimum, allowed them a foothold from which to perform penetration testing .

I remember implementing a change to our security because a chain that broke ultimately because some local SQL express SA accounts were open (on workstations, with 3rd party products that required local SQL express), which allowed further and further enumeration that ultimately ended with the discovery of a domain admin's credentials.

FUCK BETA (1, Offtopic)

synapse7 (1075571) | about 3 months ago | (#46178261)

Please post this to new articles if it hasn't been posted yet. On February 5, 2014, Slashdot announced through a javascript popup that they are starting to "move in to" the new Slashdot Beta design. Slashdot Beta is a trend-following attempt to give Slashdot a fresh look, an approach that has led to less space for text and an abandonment of the traditional Slashdot look. Much worse than that, Slashdot Beta fundamentally breaks the classic Slashdot discussion and moderation system. If you haven't seen Slashdot Beta already, open this [slashdot.org] in a new tab. After seeing that, click here [slashdot.org] to return to classic Slashdot. We should boycott stories and only discuss the abomination that is Slashdot Beta until Dice abandons the project. We should boycott slashdot entirely during the week of Feb 10 to Feb 17 as part of the wider slashcott [slashdot.org] Moderators - only spend mod points on comments that discuss Beta Commentors - only discuss the Beta - Vote up the Fuck Beta stories Keep this up for a few days and we may finally get the PHBs attention. Discussion of Beta [slashdot.org] Discussion of where to go if Beta goes live [slashdot.org] Alternative Slashdot [altslashdot.org]

Re:FUCK BETA (4, Informative)

synapse7 (1075571) | about 3 months ago | (#46178305)

**NOW WITH LINE BREAKS**

Please post this to new articles if it hasn't been posted yet.

  On February 5, 2014, Slashdot announced through a javascript popup that they are starting to "move in to" the new Slashdot Beta design.

  Slashdot Beta is a trend-following attempt to give Slashdot a fresh look, an approach that has led to less space for text and an abandonment of the traditional Slashdot look. Much worse than that, Slashdot Beta fundamentally breaks the classic Slashdot discussion and moderation system.

  If you haven't seen Slashdot Beta already, open this [slashdot.org] in a new tab. After seeing that, click here [slashdot.org] to return to classic Slashdot.

  We should boycott stories and only discuss the abomination that is Slashdot Beta until Dice abandons the project.
  We should boycott slashdot entirely during the week of Feb 10 to Feb 17 as part of the wider slashcott [slashdot.org]

  Moderators - only spend mod points on comments that discuss Beta
  Commentors - only discuss the Beta - Vote up the Fuck Beta stories

  Keep this up for a few days and we may finally get the PHBs attention.

Re:FUCK BETA (0)

foobar bazbot (3352433) | about 3 months ago | (#46178605)

Your links are broken; see html source in my pastebin...

Please post this to new articles if it hasn't been posted yet. (Copy-paste the html from here [pastebin.com] so links don't get mangled!)

On February 5, 2014, Slashdot announced through a javascript popup that they are starting to "move in to" the new Slashdot Beta design. Slashdot Beta is a trend-following attempt to give Slashdot a fresh look, an approach that has led to less space for text and an abandonment of the traditional Slashdot look. Much worse than that, Slashdot Beta fundamentally breaks the classic Slashdot discussion and moderation system.

If you haven't seen Slashdot Beta already, open this [slashdot.org] in a new tab. After seeing that, click here [slashdot.org] to return to classic Slashdot.

We should boycott stories and only discuss the abomination that is Slashdot Beta until Dice abandons the project.
We should boycott slashdot entirely during the week of Feb 10 to Feb 17 as part of the wider slashcott [slashdot.org]

Moderators - only spend mod points on comments that discuss Beta
Commentors - only discuss Beta
  http://slashdot.org/recent [slashdot.org] - Vote up the Fuck Beta stories

Keep this up for a few days and we may finally get the PHBs attention.

-----=====##### LINKS #####=====-----

Discussion of Beta: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=56395415 [slashdot.org]

Discussion of where to go if Beta goes live: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&type=submission&id=3321441 [slashdot.org]

Alternative Slashdot: http://altslashdot.org [altslashdot.org] (thanks Okian Warrior (537106) [slashdot.org])

Maybe this is why we have the beta (4, Funny)

Bob the Super Hamste (1152367) | about 3 months ago | (#46178267)

Maybe this is why we have the slashdot beta issue, something came in with the HVAC account at dice. It sucks enough that the HVAC system might be to blame.

Re:Maybe this is why we have the beta (2)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 3 months ago | (#46178399)

well, even if they swapped plus and minus on the power supply or turned the switch from SUCK to BLOW, I'm not sure it would improve the beta, any.

Slashcott (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178269)

Please post this to new articles if it hasn't been posted yet.

On February 5, 2014, Slashdot announced through a javascript popup that they are starting to "move in to" the new Slashdot Beta design.

Slashdot Beta is a trend-following attempt to give Slashdot a fresh look, an approach that has led to less space for text and an abandonment of the traditional Slashdot look. Much worse than that, Slashdot Beta fundamentally breaks the classic Slashdot discussion and moderation system.

If you haven't seen Slashdot Beta already, open this [slashdot.org] in a new tab. After seeing that, click here [slashdot.org] to return to classic Slashdot.

We should boycott stories and only discuss the abomination that is Slashdot Beta until Dice abandons the project.
We should boycott slashdot entirely during the week of Feb 10 to Feb 17 as part of the wider slashcott [slashdot.org]

Moderators - only spend mod points on comments that discuss Beta
Commentors - only discuss Beta http://slashdot.org/recent [slashdot.org] [slashdot.org] - Vote up the Fuck Beta stories

Keep this up for a few days and we may finally get the PHBs attention.

Discussion of Beta: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=56395415 [slashdot.org]
Discussion of where to go if Beta goes live: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&type=submission&id=3321441 [slashdot.org]
Alternative Slashdot: altslashdot.org [altslashdot.org]

GET OUT OF BETA FREE CARD (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178271)

http://slashdot.org/?nobeta=1

Use it while you can, because they say they're gonna take it away soon.

Brick and Mortar Stores Need to Rethink (0)

dmomo (256005) | about 3 months ago | (#46178273)

The design of their security. They should redesign it by committe. Here are some suggestions for your Target Security Beta:

* More whitespace. Credit card thieves hate whitespace.
* Big goofy graphic before they can steal your credit card info
* Force a lot of scrolling, this will definitely send attackers away
* Make the store look like Buzzfeed. This will send them screaming.

Bitcoin not affected (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178277)

Under [pure] Bitcoin, only the owner of money can initiate a transaction.

HVAC vendor has network access to the POS system? (5, Funny)

jdastrup (1075795) | about 3 months ago | (#46178279)

Might as well give HVAC vendors access to the slashdot beta servers so they can destroy it as well.

Boycott (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178289)

Please post this to new articles if it hasn't been posted yet.

On February 5, 2014, Slashdot announced through a javascript popup that they are starting to "move in to" the new Slashdot Beta design.

Slashdot Beta is a trend-following attempt to give Slashdot a fresh look, an approach that has led to less space for text and an abandonment of the traditional Slashdot look. Much worse than that, Slashdot Beta fundamentally breaks [reddit.com] the classic Slashdot discussion and moderation system. If you haven't seen Slashdot Beta already, open this [slashdot.org] in a new tab. After seeing that, click here [slashdot.org] to return to classic Slashdot.

We should boycott stories and only discuss the abomination that is Slashdot Beta until Dice abandons the project.

We should boycott slashdot entirely during the week of Feb 10 to Feb 17 as part of the wider slashcott [slashdot.org]

Moderators - only spend mod points on comments that discuss Beta
Commentors - only discuss Beta
http://slashdot.org/recent [slashdot.org] - Vote up the Fuck Beta stories

Keep this up for a few days and we may finally get the PHBs attention. Links of note:

Discussion of Beta: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=56395415 [slashdot.org]
Discussion of where to go if Beta goes live: http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&type=submission&id=3321441 [slashdot.org]
Alternative Slashdot: altslashdot.org [altslashdot.org]
IRC Discussion: freenode #slashdot-refugees

The marked-up text of this comment can be found at http://pastebin.com/UdLBWbs6 [pastebin.com]

Please recreate user base (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178319)

In case Slasdot forks...I suggest if someone wants to register with user name that exists on slashdot, ask him to post a slashdot comment containing a particular key, and then give that comments's link. This way, we will know that Anne_Nonymous is Anne_Nonymous etc.

I try something new (0, Offtopic)

oRCAD Monkey (1867884) | about 3 months ago | (#46178339)

After my nap I had a fantastic idea. If I copy classic Slashdot web page and post to beta, maybe, maybe beta change to classic. I hope I fix beta and everyone will be happy again Slashdot Log out oRCAD Monkey Submit Newsletter Jobs Channels SlashTV rss stories submissions popular blog ask slashdot book reviews games idle yro cloud hardware linux management mobile science security storage Slashdot journal entries can be automatically submitted as stories Newer Older Target's Data Breach Started With an HVAC Account Posted by samzenpus on Thursday February 06, 2014 @04:05PM from the sneaking-in dept. Jim Hall writes "Security blogger Krebs reports that Target's data breach started with a stolen HVAC account. Last week, Target said the initial intrusion into its systems was traced back to network credentials that were stolen from a third party vendor. Sources now claim that the vendor in question was a refrigeration, heating and air conditioning subcontractor that has worked at a number of locations at Target and other top retailers. Attackers stole network credentials from Fazio Mechanical Services, then used that to gain access to Target's network. It's not immediately clear why Target would have given an HVAC company external network access, or why that access would not be cordoned off from Target's payment system network." Read the 20 comments xsecurity story Military Electronics That Shatter Into Dust On Command Posted by samzenpus on Thursday February 06, 2014 @03:22PM from the poof-it's-gone dept. First time accepted submitter MAE Keller writes "Two U.S. companies are joining a military research program to develop sensitive electronic components able to self-destruct on command to keep them out of the hands of potential adversaries who would attempt to counterfeit them for their own use. From the article: 'Last Friday DARPA awarded a $2.1 million contract to PARC, and a $3.5 million contract to IBM for the VAPR program, which seeks to develop transient electronics that can physically disappear in a controlled, triggerable manner.'" Read the 129 comments xbetatest xmilitary xtechnology xditchbeta xvaprware story The Standards Wars and the Sausage Factory Posted by timothy on Thursday February 06, 2014 @02:40PM from the these-things-take-time dept. Esther Schindler writes "We all know how important tech standards are. But the making of them is sometimes a particularly ugly process. Years, millions of dollars, and endless arguments are spent arguing about standards. The reason for our fights aren't any different from those that drove Edison and Westinghouse: It's all about who benefits – and profits – from a standard. As just one example, Steven Vaughan-Nichols details the steps it took to approve a networking standard that everyone, everyone knew was needed: 'Take, for example, the long hard road for the now-universal IEEE 802.11n Wi-Fi standard. There was nothing new about the multiple-in, multiple-out (MIMO) and channel-bonding techniques when companies start moving from 802.11g to 802.11n in 2003. Yet it wasn't until 2009 that the standard became official.'" Read the 136 comments xit xwireless xnetworking xbureaucracy xorganization story New Type of Star Can Emerge From Inside Black Holes, Say Cosmologists Posted by Soulskill on Thursday February 06, 2014 @02:00PM from the cross-black-holes-off-your-list-of-good-hiding-places dept. KentuckyFC writes "Black holes form when a large star runs out of fuel and collapses under its own weight. Since there is no known force that can stop this collapse, astrophysicists have always assumed that it forms a singularity, a region of space that is infinitely dense. Now cosmologists think quantum gravity might prevent this complete collapse after all. They say that the same force that stops an electron spiraling into a nucleus might also cause the collapsing star to 'bounce' at scales of around 10^-14cm. They're calling this new state a 'Planck star' and say its lifetime would match that of the black hole itself as it evaporates. That raises the possibility that the shrinking event horizon would eventually meet the expanding Planck star, which emerges with a sudden blast of gamma rays. That radiation would allow any information trapped in the black hole to escape, solving the infamous information paradox. If they're right, these gamma rays may already have been detected by space-based telescopes meaning that the evidence is already there for any enterprising astronomer to tease apart." Read the 127 comments xspace xbetatest xblackhole xstar xbetasux story QuakeNet: Government-Sponsored Attacks On IRC Networks Posted by Soulskill on Thursday February 06, 2014 @01:17PM from the get-out-of-our-internets dept. Barryke writes "Like FreeNode, it seems more and more legitimate businesses or non-profit organizations are being targeted by government subsidiaries in attempts to disrupt and spy on their users. IRC network QuakeNet has posted a press release condemning these efforts. Quoting: 'These attacks are performed without informing the networks and are targeted at users associated with politically motivated movements such as "Anonymous." While QuakeNet does not condone or endorse and actively forbids any illegal activity on its servers we encourage discussion on all topics including political and social commentary. It is apparent now that engaging in such topics with an opinion contrary to that of the intelligence agencies is sufficient to make people a target for monitoring, coercion and denial of access to communications platforms. The released documents depict GCHQ operatives engaging in social engineering of IRC users to entrap themselves by encouraging the target to leak details about their location as well as wholesale attacks on the IRC servers hosting the network. These attacks bring down the IRC network entirely affecting every user on the network as well as the company hosting the server.' One of those tactics applied by governments is the DDOS, which (perhaps not so) coincidentally, is what their suspects are accused of. Is this irony or hypocritical?" Read the 154 comments xbetatest xditchbeta xgovernment xcommunications xbetasux story Is Intel Selling Bay Trail Chips Below Cost? Posted by timothy on Thursday February 06, 2014 @12:34PM from the consumers-win dept. edxwelch writes "An analyst at Bernstein Research has found that Intel is selling their tablet Bay Trail chips to OEMs below cost, concluding that after end rebates, Intel's tablet revenues are likely to be "close to zero," while profits will be negative. Intel has responded that the 'special costs' Intel is incurring are not pushing down gross margin. Intel needs to offer the subsidies to OEMs building $199-$299 devices to bring the bill of materials down and make them competive with cheaper chips from the likes of MediaTek and Rockchip." Read the 128 comments xbusiness xhardware xintel xmoney xbaytrail story The Bitcoin Death Star: KnC Plans 10 Megawatt Data Center In Sweden Posted by timothy on Thursday February 06, 2014 @11:46AM from the you'll-heat-up-the-whole-place dept. 1sockchuck writes "Bitcoin hardware vendor KnC Miner has begun construction on a a 10 megawatt data center in Sweden that it will fill with high-powered computers mining for cryptocurrency. KnC has emerged as a leading vendor in the volatile market for ASIC mining rigs, focusing on underpromising and overdelivering. One goal of its move into cloud mining is to cushion any fallout from delivery delays on new hardware, which have been a sore point for miners in the fast-moving Bitcoin market. "Over the next few months we are bringing online enough hashing power to make sure that any delay in the Neptune timeline will be compensated with a completely free hosted hashing packages to all fully paid customers," KnC says in its newsletter." Read the 199 comments xcloud xmoney xdatacenter xbitcoin xbetatest story Amazon's Double-Helix Acquisition Hints At Gaming Console Posted by timothy on Thursday February 06, 2014 @11:00AM from the networks-need-nodes dept. Nerval's Lobster writes "A more prominent role in video-game development could prove the latest territory on Amazon's 'attempt to conquer' list. Yes, there's already Amazon Game Studios, which produces smaller games such as Air Patriots (a tower-defense title), but that evidently wasn't enough — Amazon has acquired Double Helix, most notably the developer behind Killer Instinct and other big-action games for PCs and consoles. Amazon confirmed the deal to multiple media outlets, suggesting that it would use Double Helix's developers and intellectual property 'as part of our ongoing commitment to build innovative games for customers.' Why would Amazon want to bulk out its game-creation abilities? Rumors have floated for the past couple weeks (hat tip to Gamespot) that the company is hard at work on an Android-based gaming console that will retail for below $300. Over the past year, it's also hired gaming luminaries such as Halo author Eric Nylund, which it probably wouldn't have done without something big — or at least interesting — in the works. Amazon would doubtlessly position such a device (if it actually becomes a reality) as the low-cost alternative to Microsoft's Xbox One and Sony's PlayStation 4. But even the cheapest console won't sell without some killer games to attract customers — and that's where Double Helix might come in. ... With Nintendo flagging, there's potentially an opening for a third console ecosystem to take hold." Read the 100 comments xamazon xgames xhardware xdevelopers xconsoles story Skinny Puppy Wants Compensation For Music Used in US Interrogations 208 Got Malware? The FBI Wants It Posted by timothy on Thursday February 06, 2014 @10:18AM from the target-market-after-all dept. wiredmikey writes "The FBI has placed malware on its shopping list, and is turning to third parties to help the agency build a massive library of malicious software. According to a 'Request for a Quote' posted on the Federal Business Opportunities website, the FBI is looking for price quotes for malware for the Investigative Analysis Unit of the agency's Operational Technology Division (OTD). The unit's mission is to 'Provide technical analysis of digital methods, software and data, and provide technical support to FBI investigations and intelligence operations that involve computers, networks and malicious software,' according to the document. The FBI did not say precisely how the malware will be used, but the document calls the collection of malware from law enforcement and research sources "critical to the success of the IAU's mission to obtain global awareness of malware threat."" Read the 85 comments xfbi xmalware xsecurity xsoftware xusa story How Edward Snowden's Actions Have Impacted Defense Contractors Posted by timothy on Thursday February 06, 2014 @09:26AM from the budget-suddenly-has-room-for-a-shredder dept. An anonymous reader writes "A new study sheds light on the attitudes of a very exclusive group of IT and security managers — those employed by U.S. defense contractors — at a time when national cybersecurity is under scrutiny. Most indicated that the Edward Snowden incident has changed their companies' cybersecurity practices: their employees now receive more cybersecurity awareness training, some have re-evaluated employee data access privileges, others have implemented stricter hiring practices. While defense contractors seem to have better security practices in place and are more transparent than many companies in the private sector, they are finding the current cyber threat onslaught just as difficult to deal with." Read the 164 comments xmilitary xnsa xsecurity xgovernment xsecrecy story Sony Selling Off VAIO Computer Business Posted by timothy on Thursday February 06, 2014 @08:44AM from the turns-out-it-wasn't-vaioable dept. Kensai7 writes "Confirming reports from earlier in the week, Sony has announced plans to sell off its VAIO computer division to a Japanese investment fund. Japan Industrial Partners (JIP) will take control of the operation for an undisclosed fee, and Sony will 'cease planning, design and development of PC products.' For a variety of reasons 'including the drastic changes in the global PC industry,' Sony says 'the optimal solution is to concentrate its mobile product lineup on smartphones and tablets and to transfer its PC business to a new company.'" I have some nostalgia for the tiny old VAIO laptops; I wish more companies incorporated the swiveling camera that they came with. Read the 170 comments xbusiness xhardware xjapan xsony xbetatest story Fracking Is Draining Water From Areas In US Suffering Major Shortages Posted by samzenpus on Thursday February 06, 2014 @08:09AM from the looking-for-a-drink dept. Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "RT reports that some of the most drought-ravaged areas of the US are also heavily targeted for oil and gas development using hydraulic fracturing — a practice that exacerbates water shortages with half of the oil and gas wells fracked across America since 2011 located in places suffering through drought. Taken together, all the wells surveyed from January 2011 to May 2013 consumed 97 billion gallons of water, pumped under high pressure to crack rocks containing oil or natural gas. Up to 10 million gallons can go into a single well. 'Hydraulic fracturing is increasing competitive pressures for water in some of the country's most water-stressed and drought-ridden regions,' says Mindy Lubber. 'Barring stiffer water-use regulations and improved on-the-ground practices, the industry's water needs in many regions are on a collision course with other water users, especially agriculture and municipal water use.' Nearly half (47%) of oil and gas wells recently hydraulically fractured in the U.S. and Canada are in regions with high or extremely high water stress. Amanda Brock, head of a water-treatment firm in Houston, says oil companies in California are already exploring ways to frack using the briny, undrinkable water found in the state's oil fields. While fracking consumes far less water than agriculture or residential uses, the impact can be huge on particular communities and is 'exacerbating already existing water problems,' says Monika Freyman. Hydraulic fracking is the 'latest party to come to the table,' says Freyman. The demands for the water are 'taking regions by surprise,' she says. More work needs to be done to better manage water use, given competing demand." Read the 224 comments xbetatest xscience xusa xtechnology xbetasux story New Zealand Spy Agency Deleted Evidence About Its Illegal Spying On Kim Dotcom Posted by samzenpus on Thursday February 06, 2014 @05:22AM from the was-that-wrong? dept. An anonymous reader writes "The latest news in this: GCSB appears to have deleted key evidence in the case in a ham-fisted attempt to cover up its illegal activities. Even more ridiculous, GCSB is trying to cover this up by claiming that the material had 'aged off' — implying that it was deleted automatically. New Zealand Prime Minister John Key claims that they had to delete the information under the law. Of course, there are a few problems with that. The first is that under New Zealand law, like most countries these days, parties have an obligation to preserve documents likely to be necessary in a legal case. But, even more damning is that there's video of John Key in the New Zealand Parliament trying to defend against an earlier claim that GCSB had deleted some evidence by insisting that GCSB does not delete anything ever:" Read the 201 comments xbetatest xprivacy xgovernment xbetasux xdotcom story Dried Meat "Resurrects" Lost Species of Whale 79 Newer Older Follow us:TwitterFacebookGoogle+RSS Feed Disable Advertising As our way of thanking you for your positive contributions to Slashdot, you are eligible to disable advertising. Slashdot TodayWednesdayTuesdayMondaySundaySaturdayFridayThursday Submit Story Every program is a part of some other program, and rarely fits. FAQ Story Archive Hall of Fame Advertising Jobs Terms Privacy Opt Out Choices About Feedback Slashdot Japan Mobile View Slashdot Beta Trademarks property of their respective owners. Comments owned by the poster. Copyright © 2014 Dice. All Rights Reserved. Slashdot is a Dice Holdings, Inc. service.

DiceNews for Dicks (2)

Junior Samples (550792) | about 3 months ago | (#46178371)

Rename the beta site and call it "DiceNews for Dicks". Then load it up with stories about the Deport Justin Beiber Movement http://www.google.com/url?sa=t... [google.com] and news for Kardashian stories https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]

Leave Slashdot alone!

Re:DiceNews for Dicks (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178595)

Seriously. This isn't People Magazine. This is a website populated by programmers, technicians, and engineers. We don't care if your website looks nice, we care if it works.

BETA DOESN'T WORK FOR US.

Big dumb and pretty isn't going to sell, here.

Community Was Right (1)

MarkvW (1037596) | about 3 months ago | (#46178379)

Watch 'Community' on NBC. You'll see that the HVAC people are the hidden power in our civilization. Be very afraid.

turn off javascript (1)

fredan (54788) | about 3 months ago | (#46178381)

turn of javascript for slashdot.org, fsdn.com, googleadservices.com and truste.com.

problem solved.

Re:turn off javascript (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178425)

turn of javascript

Ah yes, that is a bit of truth that has served me well for the last decade. When sites completely break when you turn off javascript, it has been a safe sign that I should find something better to do with my time.

Re:turn off javascript (1)

sexconker (1179573) | about 3 months ago | (#46178477)

turn of javascript for slashdot.org, fsdn.com, googleadservices.com and truste.com.

problem solved.

Don't forget to block third-party cookies!

"Been slashdot'd" takes on a whole new meaning... (4, Insightful)

QuietLagoon (813062) | about 3 months ago | (#46178445)

After seeing what the new beta site looks like, in the future "being slashdot'd" will mean being destroyed by someone who does not understand what they are destroying.

Did the software have fixed passwords / users? (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 3 months ago | (#46178503)

Did the software have fixed passwords / users?

Some software needs an fixed login to work.

Slashdot Beta (5, Insightful)

ShaunC (203807) | about 3 months ago | (#46178531)

Target fucked somewhere between 40 million and 110 million people. DICE is now trying to fuck something south of half a million people.

Cut this shit out. Revert. Take the DICE Marketing department out for a nice big lunch, drinks and all. Then send them home for the weekend. Then undo the damage they've done.

I'm sadly sure that this is an intentional ploy to drive away long-time users ("geeks" and "nerds") who have contributed so much that, like me, they're eligible to disable advertising. What they don't understand is that even if my karma was shit (we don't get numbers anymore, I guess mine would be 50++++++), I'd still be using Ghostery and AdBlock to block the ads without Slashdot's generous option.

Wake up, guys. This is a tech site. The comments make the site. The users make the site. We aren't going to sit around and watch it go to shit. You will have nothing, ZERO left if the beta interface goes into production, except for a few new users who came over from MSNBC.

Writing, wall, see it, hope you have negotiated a nice severance package.

Beta is great ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178545)

Yes, that is right, the Beta UI of Slashdot is the best invention ever. I am sure that the HVAC system could also benefit from it. Who wouldn't want a system that looks like 'any other site', feels un-nerd-like and is guaranteed to drive away advanced users ! In the end, the system is sure to draw the attention of only those people that want to spend time spamming and trolling. I think it is a great idea for that purpose...

That, and Beta sucks.

Re: Comment on this story..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178561)

I cannot comment on this story because I can only display 2 comments at a time on the screen - despite there being loads of unused real estate down either side of the page. I'll spend the rest of the evening srolling down to see if I can work out who is saying what....

Michael P. Durney President and CEO of Dice (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178565)

Just called the owner of Slashdot on 212-725-6550, even his secretary knows already the subject in advance.
The redesign of Slashdot, I think they got the message, but maybe you have to make sure...

Answer to "Why weak security?" (1)

sehlat (180760) | about 3 months ago | (#46178571)

Because good security, like anything else worth buying, costs $$$. So it looks like a loss on the books. Remember, "the books" don't show the loss Target's taking in lost trade until the trade is lost by incidents like this. And even then, I'll be they don't do very much other than put some cosmetics on their system.

For the same $tupid reason: "The $tockholder$ won't like it."

Why HVAC contractor has network access (2)

LaughingVulcan (3511853) | about 3 months ago | (#46178577)

Either A) some IM, email, or trouble ticket system, or B) remote setting of network enabled thermostats and diagnostics of HVAC units remotely. And the submitter can't think of that? Then why post it. And why not segregate the payment system? Uh, cause that costs money to do, and PCIDSS is a fucking stupid thing 99% of the time. It is only used to blame retailers instead of making the Vendors and Card companies design and ensure airtight security, as it should be. Does make one wonder why any retailer POS system should travel on the Intertubes and networkable systems, though, instead of fixed landline. (Yeah, unrealistic, but if the credit card industry won't man up and take responsibility then maybe that's what they should be relegated to.)

I kinda think the Beta is awesome. (1, Interesting)

gdek (202709) | about 3 months ago | (#46178583)

I honestly don't understand what the fuss is about.

Re:I kinda think the Beta is awesome. (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178623)

I honestly don't understand what the fuss is about.

Was it designed by your son or something?

Re:I kinda think the Beta is awesome. (0)

bobbied (2522392) | about 3 months ago | (#46178761)

I honestly don't understand what the fuss is about.

Was it designed by your son or something?

Perhaps he works for them? Just saying..

Re:I kinda think the Beta is awesome. (1)

edxwelch (600979) | about 3 months ago | (#46178723)

Careful, what you say!
There seems to be an angry anti-BETA lynch mob out there

I just bought myself a year of Reddit Gold (1)

ShaunC (203807) | about 3 months ago | (#46178607)

Because the /. beta can't even properly suck on my nuts :(

Chances are, you're behind a firewall or proxy, or clicked the Back button to accidentally reuse a form. Please try again. If the problem persists, and all other options have been tried, contact the site administrator.

Re:I just bought myself a year of Reddit Gold (1)

bobbied (2522392) | about 3 months ago | (#46178789)

If the problem persists, and all other options have been tried, contact the site administrator.

Hello?

Loyal readers trolling Slashdot protesting beta .. (1)

kbahey (102895) | about 3 months ago | (#46178639)

Dice can't see it, since they are new here (he he)...

The most loyal long time most avid readers of Slashdot, are not trolling the site, in protest of the failed beta. Never thought I would see the day ...

Where is GNAA, Natalie Portman grits, and frist prost when you need them!

Let me explain ...

I have been a regular visitor to Slashdot for around 15 years. For that, I get the checkbox to disable ads, though I browse with Javascript disabled so my browser does not slow down.

I come here for the discussions, and often read comments at +5, changing that only if I find a discussion interesting and warrants reading at a lower level.

The new beta uses JQuery for the comment threshold selector, and changes that on the fly. This means all the comments are loaded, but not visible, and processing any page with considerable number of comments will slow down MY computer! If I have a few tabs open to read later, my computer will be unusable.

What is worse it that they require you to click on the slider on every article to change the threshold! This is just insane!

If they insist that I enable Javascript to browse the site at the threshold I want, then they will lose me as a long time. I imagine that others long timers will hate the site too.

Dice have to remember that this site has two unmatched features, interlocked: a moderation system that is good at cutting down the trolling, spamming, and noise, and a comment section that is frequented by many people who are passionate about technology and other nerdy stuff.

If they wanted to intentionally ruin the site and drive people away, they would not have done any worse than what they are doing now.

If they manage to aggravate a lot of their users, the comment section will no longer be attractive to the audience. Perhaps we should revive kuro5hin?

I wrote the above in a feedback form that I filled a while ago, and I am emailing this comment to their feedback@slashdot.org. Please send them feedback too.

HVAC on slashdot beta (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178671)

Depending on your point of view, two things that suck, or blow...

Banksters and microchips (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178679)

It's not immediately clear why Target would have given an HVAC company external network access, or why that access would not be cordoned off from Target's payment system network.

Not clear if these conglomerate retailers are part of the bankster push for international electronic monetary data systems: ie, the microchip implants are coming.

Breach the BETA (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178681)

I've woken up hung-over and found women in my bed that looked better than BETA. I've never regretted fucking them as much as I'd regret FUCKing BETA!

Wow, this is incredibly bad... (1)

KingRobot (703860) | about 3 months ago | (#46178685)

I pretty much left slashdot once, when Dice took over, because the quality of the content went downhill... now the quality of the site has gone downhill too. So long slashdot. BTW, for those who remember CmdrTaco, he's working on a pretty interesting new project called Trove - check it out!

Beta, NO! (2)

Octojay (3528011) | about 3 months ago | (#46178687)

I have been lurking around here pretty much since Slashdot's inception. I finally felt the need to make an account today to let it be known that I will be joining the Slashdot boycott on February 10-17th. I (and apparently everyone else) made their feedback for the beta when it was introduced. They decided to not listen. This site is truly something special, its community and insightful discussions are completely unmatched. We can't let them ruin it. Join the boycott, a severe drop in traffic should get their attention because apparently our protest is falling upon deaf ears.

common user / pass are easier with contract / subs (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 3 months ago | (#46178695)

common user / pass are easier to work with and manage when you are dealing with contracts / subs even more so in an area like hvac where the workers are not IT people and you have field work that can get subbed out to local firms now giving each tech there own login can be hard to keep track of and you have to deal with lock outs do to expiring passwords as they may need to use them day to day.

Obligatory XKCD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#46178731)

Is there an obligatory XKCD to explain how badly Beta sucks???

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