Google Nixes Some Calendar Features and Other Software Offerings 235
An anonymous reader writes "Google on Friday announced it is shutting down a slew of features and services as part of its winter cleaning. Google Calendar will be losing a few features, Google Sync will be axed (on the consumer side), as will Google Calendar Sync, SyncML, the Issue Tracker Data API, and the Punchd app."
Now I have to use the gmail app (Score:5, Funny)
I hate it
iOS and android, I hate both versions
Might use yahoo again
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Yes because IMAP doesn't have push. Firing up the radios on a phone to poll some server every 15 minutes is a giant waste of battery. Exchange ActiveSync does have push support, so killing EAS is a major step backwards for anyone using gmail on a non-google device. I'll be switching my email to outlook.com because of this.
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1) They are not 'killing EAS'. Google Sync was for accessing Google products via MS protocols -- which is ridiculous. :P
2) IMAP has a push [wikipedia.org], it's just not enabled/provided by most IMAP providers
3) Gmail has push in their own app for iOS and Android.
4) If you're using WP8.... well, that's your own damn fault
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Yes because IMAP doesn't have push.
It doesn't? [wikipedia.org]
Client support is a bit spotty (iOS Mail.app didn't support it, stock Android client doesn't either, alternatives like k9mail do), but that doesn't mean it's not there.
Re:Now I have to use the gmail app (Score:4, Informative)
IMAP has had push since before Gmail existed, and I've been using it since then ... and GMail supports IMAP NOTIFY (the IDLE command).
Re:Now I have to use the gmail app (Score:4, Informative)
IMAP does have a push system, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMAP_IDLE [wikipedia.org] and there is also something called P-IMAP although that is far less widely supported.
Activesync works in much the same way, it sends a sleep request and the server then doesn't respond until it has some data to send.
Re:Now I have to use the gmail app (Score:5, Informative)
wrong. Push email still requires a constant connection to the server to create the network link; it's just that it doesn't need to go through the pull protocol handshake every time, but your antenna is still turned on for push - how else do you expect data to reach you?
Antenna turned on? Antennas are just a chunk of wire.
Imap IDLED support works exactly like ActiveSync. They both open a socket to the mail server, try to read that socket, and when nothing arrives, put the radio receiver in an extremely low power listening state. (You can even shut the receiver off for fairly long periods of time without notifying the TCP Stack.) It uses almost zero power this way.
When the read succeeds either because the server sent something, or the socket times out (anywhere from 12 to 18 minutes later) the TCP stack briefly wakes up and re-establishes the socket and tries to read it again, acts on what it received, or puts the radio in low power state(sleep) again.
Nothing is traveling across that link while the radio is "sleeping". Only upon the transmission of data from the server, or the closing of the socket does the radio ever become active.
The assumption that your cellular radio is ever off is simply wrong. The vast majority of the time your radio is not transmitting anything, but it is always listening to the cell tower. So an open socket across which no data is being transmitted costs exactly zero additional battery power, except for a brief spike once every 12 to 18 minutes while the socket is refreshed.
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Have you tried them in the last week? They redid the whole app and it's pretty awesome now, multiple accounts and everything.
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You can critique it, you just can't demand it be changed.
Also "I hate it" is not a critique.
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I don't think he was demanding a change was he? Just saying that he hated it.
Feedback is a useful tool for service providers - even when those services are free.
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Re:Now I have to use the gmail app (Score:4, Interesting)
Listen very carefully, for I shall say this only once
Gmail is not free.Google rakes in a nice sum of money from it.
You do not pay them cash directly, but they make money by selling advertising etc. . I am willing to pay this price. This gives me the same rights as any other customer of a large corporation.
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Which is all the more reason not to use those services... How long do you think they will survive when the user base they are claiming to get money for disappears?
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Google's been around a lot longer than tons of non-free email services out there. Bad logic. Paying money for a service is in no way a guarantee that the company will keep offering that service, or even be around very long. People paid boatloads of money for CompuServe, and that didn't last either.
Re:Now I have to use the gmail app (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Now I have to use the gmail app (Score:5, Informative)
"If it doesn't cost you money, then you are the product being sold"
Or something like that... forget where I saw it though...
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If you're not paying for it, you're the product.
or
If you're not the customer, you're the product.
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In the case of Google, even paying customers are still the product.
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"If it doesn't cost you money, then you are the product being sold"
I get the point and concede that there's a valid one to be made there, but man am I ever sick of hearing that.
Look, it's a triangle trade. [wikipedia.org] Google trades a service to you in exchange for your attention to ads; Google trades your attention to advertisers in exchange for money. The advertisers and you are both customers. Sure, it's vastly different from being a customer of a grocery store or restaurant, but it's not 100% different either, so don't oversimplify.
"You're the product" has turned into such a damned
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http://www.ethannonsequitur.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/facebook-and-you-pigs.jpg [ethannonsequitur.com]
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And exactly how do they do that without reading what you have on their services? That is the definition of spying. How they use the knowledge they gain is irrelevant and also your suggestion that they aren't selling it elsewhere doesn't mean they won't in the future. That is hardly hyperbole and if it isn't considered when deciding whether to use their services then that isn't helpful.
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You guys really need a dictionary.
spy /sp/
Noun: A person who secretly collects and reports information about an enemy or competitor.
Verb: Work for an organization by secretly collecting information about enemies or competitors.
Note the word 'secretly'. I dont think this counts as secret: https://www.google.com/dashboard/ [google.com]
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Show me where Google clearly spells out that every single word you write using their service will be scanned. My word, legalese, trumps your word, secretly.
Every word you write to someone using Google mail, or who forwards your email to anyone who uses Google Mail essentially becomes property of Google too. Today it seems that only by running your own mail server and corresponding only with others who do will stop your communications from being aggregated and sold. (or profiled and sold with your name, address, employer, financial and browsing histories attached) With ISP sniffing, encryption may be required too.
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Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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There has to be a line in the sand for the offerings for every company, be them free or not.
If you choose to buy from vendor A, and they cant sell enough to keep the lights on, they drop the product and you are out of luck just as if Google cant 'give away' enough.
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I paid with my information, I want it back.
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Who cares (Score:4, Informative)
Yes it costs money but if you can't afford $3 a month then stick with the data snoop or consider getting a job.
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That's BS:
a) There's a minimum of $10/month
b) The non-exchange version doesn't have mobile syncing of calenders (according to the rackspace website)
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Perhaps they treat some countries differently or they have a very similar service but I can definitely say with certainty that there is no $10 minimum.
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Shit will just disappear when Rackspace feels like it.
You're rather silly to think Rackspace is going to keep providing it when its not profitable. They are no different than Google.
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I prefer to use rackspace. For $3 a month...
Are they as stable as gmail?
I have dreamhost, but I don't use their email... At the end of the day, I'm pretty sure that even if bought a VPS and put my mind to it... I couldn't host my email as reliable as gmail.
Re:Who cares (Score:4, Interesting)
Fastmail might be the best option. They only do email so they're not likely to remove much unless they're going under. Though while they do only do email, they were bought by opera not that I've heard that's made much difference. I considered trying them myself but rackspace hasn't been a problem so I'm not sure I should change just for the sake of it. Email is so such a standard thing though I think it's easy to find decent cheap options and if someone does decide to charge for it they hopefully realise it's too competitive to offer a subpar service so they should hopefully not to that.
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At a certain point, more reliability doesn't really help any more. I host my own email, on a VPS, is it as reliable as gmail? no. has it ever gone down? yes. has it ever been down long enough that anyone has got a bounce message ? I don't think so. And that's really what counts. it's "good enough" even if not perfect.
Once something passes the "good enough" threshold, it doesn't matter how much more reliablie it is than that, and the way the email protocols work, a few minutes of downtime here and there just
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Doit it at home (Score:2)
If its so low bandwidth that your ISP doesn't care, just host at home on a VM for nothing. Its exactly what i do
Sure many complain about running 'servers' on a home account but if its for your personal use and not pushing TB's a month, i dont think any will care.
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That would be fine for callendar sync but don't try it with email, it's just asking for trouble. Many messages to other people will fall afoul of all sorts of spam filters, and your ISP is likely to outright block the port anyway. I did that years ago, and my connection was actually a "business" connection where I was allowed to run servers, unfortunately most spam blacklists still decided my IP was "residential" so half my email messages to people never got there. After moving to a residential connection
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Myself, i have a 'host' that does the mail collection so i dont run into that problem, but i still run the actual storage of my data at home. Best of both worlds, as i have my stuff available everywhere ( including file storage ) but im not trusting anyone else to keep it safe.
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Carddav/caldav? (Score:4, Interesting)
Does this mean Android will FINALLY have decent out of the box carddav/caldav support?
That's one of the biggest things that I've preferred iOS to Android. That, and the stupid way applications are stored on the system partition so you 'run out of free space' despite having gigabytes free.
Re:Carddav/caldav? (Score:5, Informative)
Whether they are better yet, I'm not sure, but Yes, they have indicated that they want people using CardDAV/CalDav instead of Exchange.
Not too surprising, given that they have to pay MS for Exchange licensing, but I don't think these open protocols have the push support that Exchange had.
Re:Carddav/caldav? (Score:4, Informative)
That's one of the biggest things that I've preferred iOS to Android. That, and the stupid way applications are stored on the system partition so you 'run out of free space' despite having gigabytes free.
That was changed with the release of ICS.
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That could be legacy (or bad) code where an app was making sure the SD was available before it did something. This was/used to be the recommended way of doing things. At least checking for the SD if you stored stuff there. However, some devs hard-coded the string instead of using API calls like getExternalStorageDirectory();
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There are two apps that deal with this beautifully: carddavsync and caldav sync. Both by Martin Gnadja, both about $3. It's the best money I ever spent - sign up for a calendar/addressbook account at fruux.com and you are totally free of both Apple and Google, syncing data using open protocols. Feels pretty good, actually.
Calendar sync? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Calendar sync? (Score:5, Informative)
Not unless you're using Exchange to do it:
Google Sync was designed to allow access to Gmail, Google Calendar, and Contacts via the Microsoft® Exchange ActiveSync® protocol. With the recent launch of CardDAV, Google now offers similar access via IMAP, CalDAV, and CardDAV, making it possible to build a seamless sync experience using open protocols.
GoogleSync and GoogleCalendarSync are Google's implementation of ActiveSync; they're not used to describe the general syncing features Google offers. This announcement is basically saying they're retiring a proprietary protocol in favour of open standards.
Re:Calendar sync? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Calendar sync? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's because the summary wasn't designed to inform, it was designed to enrage. This is what passes for journalism these days.
Re:Calendar sync? (Score:5, Informative)
Well, you're ignorant enough not to know what CalDAV is, yet still consider yourself knowledgeable enough to comment on the field, so I'd say that you're the natural target audience for trollish, flamebait headlines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CalDAV#Implementations [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CardDAV#Implementations [wikipedia.org]
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/en/us/IntellectualProperty/IPLicensing/Programs/ExchangeActiveSyncProtocol.aspx [microsoft.com]
Also note that ActiveSync requires an MS license to implement. Now that's lock-in.
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1) IMAP has push.
Well, technically, yes.
But the way it's implemented causes it to be a battery hog on mobile devices.
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You should have been running your own private server with an encrypted VPN. Google is shit and getting shittier. Depending on these monetizing crack babies is not rational.
Yes there is a feeble offering for a linux box that will do all that and more. Try freecode or wait for the fanbois in 3...2...1...
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So, does this mean that the only valuable feature of Google I've found so far is going to stop today? That's the ability to sync all my Android device calendars through my gmail account. Gone? I won't be able to enter an appointment on my tablet and have it show up on my phone?
From TFA's link to Google's statements:
"What do I need to do if I’m already using Google Sync?
Nothing! Existing users can continue to use Google Sync on their current devices.
Starting January 30, 2013, users, other than paid Google Apps users, won't be able to set up new devices using Google Sync and should see our sync site [google.com] for instructions. You can also consult with your device carrier or manufacturer for how they recommend to sync with Gmail, Google Calendar, and Contacts. Google Apps for Business,
New features (Score:5, Insightful)
On other news sites, I read that Google today announces 18 new features. http://googleblog.blogspot.ca/2012/12/google-communities-and-photos.html [blogspot.ca] etc.
And here: http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/14/google-gives-google-end-of-year-update-adds-low-bandwidth-hangouts-full-size-mobile-photo-backups-better-event-planning-animated-gifs-and-more/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+(TechCrunch)&source=email_rt_mc_body&ifp=0 [techcrunch.com]
Just Google it...
But on Slashdot, I read that drivel coming right out of Burston-Marsteller, or some other PR drone.
This is supposed to be a technology forum but somehow, some Slashdot editors perhaps seem to think that this is 'provoking' material, in the good sense of being humorous and driving up the number of comments?
But at what price? At what price, just in terms of credibility, for a beginning?
Could someone answer that?
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On other news sites, I read that Google today announces 18 new features.
All those new "features" are just additional Google+ cruft, and are of little interest to most people.
Basically Google appears to be hellbent on getting their foundering social platform going, and is pulling people off other - arguably more useful - projects in an attempt to somehow accomplish this.
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forcing everyone to use
How so? I have a Google account, but I don't have a G+ account.
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I am boggled at how fast it replaced Flickr (and other like services) among the photography community. Most serious online photographers pan G+ rather passionately. But still, not a single on of my real-life friends actually use the service, one or two tried in the first month or so, but it depopulated rather quickly. I've ended up using it as a Twitter clone (or by my reckoning, I've never used Twitter, and genuinely "don't get it"), following popular/famous nerds and techies. It does make me sad, sinc
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I tend to agree (as one who started in '99), but another trend has been the type of articles presented. I seem to remember when there were more DIY articles and articles related to science, both complex and basic. The last few years /. has been dominated by mobile news, patent wars, legal wrangling, and sometimes stuff that really Does Not Matter to geeks on a tech blog.
So while the posting has gotten ... simplified... the choice of articles by the editors has encouraged shouting matches (good for busines
Farewell, appointment slots, we hardly knew ye (Score:4)
I am sad to see these go. Appointment slots have become increasingly useful in our department. We were getting ready to roll out a trial use of appointment slots to allow our students to self-reserve appointments with our department advisors... but now that's obviously not going to happen.
The end of Google for me. (Score:3, Insightful)
No more push email for iOS (currently done via exchange)? That's the last reason I actually use any Google services.
I've been moving away from Google for about a year now because I feel that they have turned form only partially evil to complete evil. Eliminating push email is the final trigger to get me to completely eliminate Google services from my life.
Goodbye Google, and thanks for the years of services. Good luck with that G+ thing that you're pushing so hard. I'm sure someone likes it, since you've managed to alienate so many by forcing it upon us (and yes - I would say "forced" is adequate - the last gmail account I signed up for automatically had a G+ profile created...).
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I've been moving away from Google for about a year now because I feel that they have turned form only partially evil to complete evil.
Oh for fuck's sake, are you kidding? Not support a proprietary, Microsoft protocol and instead using open, free protocols is *EVIL* now?
The only way you can trot this out in relation to "don't be evil" would be this is Google being *LESS* evil.
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Google respects your privacy completely. They share nothing with 3rd parties of what they know about you. However, they do offer most of their services at little to no cost, in exchange for those services, they use what they know about you to better serve advertising to you and those like you. They are completely open and honest about that.
If you want google services without giving out any personal information, then you need to start paying someone to provide them.
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Re:The end of Google for me. (Score:4, Interesting)
I feel that they have turned form only partially evil to complete evil. Eliminating push email is the final trigger to get me to completely eliminate Google services from my life.
So in an effort to embrace and open standard and axe support for horrible proprietary crap from Microsoft you're now ditching them because they've become ... too evil?
*slow clap*
Please do us all a favour and stop moaning and just go and migrate to MobileMe, err I mean iWorks, err mean iCloud and I'm not even sure it's still iCloud I mean it has been out for like a year so I expect Apple to axe it in favour of the next incompatible proprietary crap soon.
Re:The end of Google for me. (Score:5, Informative)
There is an open standard for push support for email - IMAP IDLE. GMail implements it, as do most IMAP services, and a lot of IMAP clients. Microsoft's patented ActiveSync, designed for use with exchange/outlook, is also licenced by google both for client devices (android) and their servers, i.e. GMail/google apps, primarily so they can both connect to exchange as client, or serve up activesync for outlook clients. The server side is is now going away on their free personal gmail accounts - presumably because of the licencing fees for a not-often used service on their free version, as outlook also now supports IMAP IDLE.
Apple supports IMAP IDLE on OSX in Mail, but not iOS. It does support ActiveSync, so iOS can connect to Exchange servers. But Apple not supporting IMAP IDLE is the exception, not the rule. They say it's too power hungry for mobile devices, which is partly true - but activesync works very similarly, and is a similar power drain, and they support that.
Apple use their own method for iCloud I believe (which is why it fell foul of patent infringement in Germany, and had to turn off iCloud push support there).
So you have various options. Use the Gmail app, and get push that way (I don't know what method google uses for the App). Forward your google mail to icloud, and use that, if you want to hang onto your gmail address. Use a 3rd party app to implement IMAP IDLE support (for example PushMail on the app store should do it, it's aimed at Sparrow but does support the native Mail app on iOS by the looks of it). Implementing a 3rd party solution on iOS is tricky, as you need it to run in the background since iOS doesn't include IDLE support natively, and that is restricted heavily on iOS, which is why I believe Sparrow never got IDLE support.
But google was one of the very few services to implement activesync in the first place, apart from Exchange itself of course. If you want push email support, the standard is IMAP IDLE basically everywhere. So your complaint is that Google is dropping a patented, proprietary de-facto Microsoft standard for free accounts while keeping the open standard that Apple doesn't support on iOS, is to complain how evil Google is, and migrate to...?
A closed proprietary standard by Apple that only works with their software - iCloud? (Let's hope they keep that one going longer than mobile.me or its predecessors)
Another IMAP provider that provides IMAP IDLE support, but not Microsoft's activesync, leaving you in the same boat?
A hosted Exchange account? (shudder)
I'd suggest your actual problem is an insistence on using a client OS device that doesn't support open standards, and makes it very hard for 3rd party apps to do so.
Re:You just have to use the gmail app for push (Score:4, Interesting)
So they are essentially forcing me to use two applications for my email then, if I want push from them (since they are far from the only email provider I use).
Same shit different pile ;). All said, it's a move I've been intending for awhile anyway, so this is just motivation to make the move away from their services.
I was using the new Google Maps app for iOS the other day and it seems like every page i open it wants me to sign into my Google account so they can track me. Deleted. I prefer paid offline maps anyway, since I live in Canada and often travel where cell coverage is limited.
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Not just Series 60 (Score:3, Insightful)
Turning off support for syncing Symbian/S60 devices will also cripple the non-Symbian devices that support Mail For Exchange; the N9, N900 and N950.
Why not to use Cloud Apps (Score:3)
This is why I don't use cloud/web apps and specifically don't use Google products. If I'm using a tool to get my work done I don't want the maker suddenly yanking it or even features out from under me.
That, on top of the visited link coloring, (Score:2)
does it.
Google apps aren't free... (Score:2)
So what about my WM6.x phones? I guess theyre dead (Score:2)
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Some of them even refuse to die! now that's a product!
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Say what you want about Microsoft's shoddy products, at least they're consistent.
*cough* Plays4Sure *cough*
At least Google doesn't demand you pay for the services they discontinue.
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At least Google doesn't demand you pay for the services they discontinue.
From TFAnnouncement [blogspot.fi]:
Sounds like paid-only availability to me.
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I've tried to use DuckDuckGo, my main complaint though is that I find I use image search a lot more than I thought, and DuckDuckGo doesn't seem to have that feature. Do you have a viable alternative for that?
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Seems like every time I sign up for a non-Google service and get used to it, within a couple years Google pull the rug out from under me.
When I signed up for GrandCentral it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. And then Google came in, brought the company, re-branded their service as Google Voice, and then shutdown GrandCentral. The problem is, Google Voice doesn't support Canadian numbers, but GrandCentral did. It's been 3 years since then and I'm still waiting for Google Voice to come up north to restore the service I lost 3 years ago.
I know, I know, it's a free economy and Google can buy whatever company they want. Neither GrandC
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I agree. GrandCentral was a killer service. Since becoming Google Voice, every now and then I go to adjust a setting, only to find that the setting no longer even exists.
Google seems to be pissing me off on a pretty regular basis lately.
They fucked up GrandCentral, took away Browser Sync, and based on the article description, it looks like they're axing 2 or 3 features this time around that I use regularly.
Bastards.
Re:Why am I using Google, again? (Score:4, Informative)
You do realize why they don't support Canadian numbers right? They'd have to be classified as a telecommunications company. Then they'd be subject to CRTC regulations, foreign ownership rules, etc..
They got whatever licences GrandCentral had, but haven't bothered trying to extend them or renew them.
Entering into the Telecommunications market in Canada can be a scary beast, especially if you're not canadian. Wind learned all about that.
Re:Why am I using Google, again? (Score:5, Insightful)
Seems like every time I sign up for a Google service and get used to it, within a couple years they pull the rug out from under me.
Apple is the same way - which is why I'm not relying on any of their services too heavily.
iTools became .Mac, which became MobileMe, which spawned iWork.com which shut down when MobileMe went away with the launch of iCloud.
Say what you want about Microsoft's shoddy products, at least they're consistent.
"Here is this new initative called Plays For Sure! "
*introduces the Zune*
"Plays for Sure is not supported on the Microsoft Zune®"
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why am I using Google, again? (Score:4, Informative)
Welcome to the sweet world of Cloud. Where everything is cheap and available. Until it is not..
Lesson learned: If your business depends on specific tools or functionality, set up your own infrastructure.
Exactly.
It's the little things that really get to me. Logged into Google Docs not too long ago and discovered that all support for exporting as plain .doc files had been removed. No warning. Just gone.
"Just use .docx and join us in the 21st century!" I know. But the fact that the feature was taken away without asking, or even being told ahead of time... that's infuriating.
How many times have you kept a legacy piece of software around for a specific reason? Now imagine having it erased, along with all backup copies. Shitty, huh?
I use the hell out of Apple and Google products, but I'm really tired of hearing "Just trust us this time. This is the real cloud-based solution! We're not going to pull the rug out from under you again!"
I use the cloud for matters of convenience, not necessity. And I don't see that changing anytime soon.
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Apple is the same way - which is why I'm not relying on any of their services too heavily.
iTools became .Mac, which became MobileMe, which spawned iWork.com which shut down when MobileMe went away with the launch of iCloud.
To be fair, until iCloud came along, these were changes in name only. MobileMe pretty much had the exact same set of services (with some new ones) as iTools. And I'm not sure it's unreasonable that after 10 years iCloud finally dropped some services.
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I was trying to do this when I first got my iPhone...then Google did Exchange sync and all was well. And now this.
Still, the open-source stack is looking a lot better these days - time to do it again.
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I'm not so sure about that. Microsoft has a long history of killing products and platforms.
XNA, so I hear, is a recent victim. There have also been quite a few rumors about the impending demise of .NET for a little over a year now. A quick google search will turn up a host of other examples both old and new. The point, of course, is that they're no more stable now than they've been in the past.
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The correct argument is that product solutions are superior to service solutions, and because Google doesnt offer very many product solutions (pretty much just Android), its hard to not get slammed by solution discontinuation when swimming in their pool. Product solutions, such as Exchange Server, continue to work no matter what Microsoft does to future versions of the product... just don't "upgrade."
The fatal flaw of servic
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Microsoft's products are famously inconsistent.
Oh, okay, well the MS products I'm exposed to are the developer tools. The developer tools are famously short-lived and inconsistent. You probably meant stuff like Hotmail and Word.
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Say what you want about Microsoft's shoddy products, at least they're consistent.
yeah... consistently shoddy
They are also consistently badly licenced and over priced. People are still using them,,,
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So right now the was I've been setting up iOS devices was by setting up an Exchange server pointing to m.google.com so that everything would work well. What's the best way now if they're discontinuing that?
Is there a problem with IMAP?
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(Besides the lack of true push support, of course, but Google's app does support it--or at least I assume it does. I've never found a compelling reason get push notifications for e-mail on a mobile device, personally.)