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Why PCs Trump iPads For User Innovation

samzenpus posted more than 3 years ago | from the using-the-old-tools dept.

IT 523

snydeq writes "InfoWorld's Bob Lewis argues that while the iPad may be opening IT's eyes to a new way to encourage end-users to innovate new solutions for their organizations, that work will better be undertaken on the PC. 'When the subject is PCs, the answer is to lock 'em down and run everything in the data center. When the subject is iPads, the answer is that there's an app for that,' Lewis writes. 'Before you decide the iPad is your platform, though, consider the factors that favor the PC. First, it's a sunk cost. Second, it's more capable. And third, your end-users are already familiar with it. Which brings us to what's particularly sad about the end-user innovation situation: Until the iPad resurrected the subject, most IT organizations have actively discouraged it. It goes beyond locking down the devices so that end-users can't install software they might find helpful in their day-to-day work or might increase efficiency in their departments.'"

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Summary (0)

fidget42 (538823) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125646)

Change is bad.

Re:Summary (-1, Troll)

CleanEverything (2440144) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125754)

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Re:Summary (2)

webmistressrachel (903577) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125802)

This afternoon the lameness filter stopped me from rebutting a troll with the output from a tracert (too many padding characters), even though it didn't malform anything at all.

But the lameness filter actually allowed this spam through???

I've got some news for you, /. devs, your lameness filter is, er, lame. Sort it. I want to post output from the console. My "fans" lol want the output from that console (it could have proved a point which was left unproven!). Nobody wanted this (repetition of URL was blatant giveaway to any automated system) and yet here it is. Come on, anybody would think you don't mind spam but hate clever trolls...

Re:Summary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125838)

My god, it's full of tards

Re:Summary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125898)

There are tradeoffs.

I read the article (2)

The Dawn Of Time (2115350) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125654)

I read the article but somehow missed the point. Is this some sort of preemptive strike against a supposed iPad takeover of corporate IT?

Re:I read the article (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125790)

More likely against Android tablets.

iPads are for content consumers, not creators.

Re:I read the article (2, Informative)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 3 years ago | (#37126078)

Nah what he's saying is the reason they are pushing iPads is because they don't lock them down and if they would give the users a teeny tiny bit of freedom on the PC instead of being total BOFH about everything you'd see more work getting done.

Sadly I have to agree. While AD and GPOs are nice I've seen too many BOFH get addicted to GPOs and end up locking the machines down to almost the point of unusability. The reason you don't see innovation at corps on the PC is because the IT guys first lock the living shit out of it THEN put some really shitty AV that sucks resources like Norton. What you have is a machine that is painful to use that just screams drudgery.

But don't worry two or three really nasty apps will come out for the iShiny and then the IT guys will find a way to lock the living shit out of them too. There can be a healthy middle between giving everyone admin and making them so locked out they can't do squat without IT standing there but sadly from what I've seen all you get is the two extremes.

Two things (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125660)

1.) iPads are not replacements for PCs.

2.) If PC operating systems weren't so fragile then IT departments would not have had to lock them down.

2

Re:Two things (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125864)

oh yeah try installing anything on linux without Root access or changing anything. If users weren't so dead set on installing crap that isn't thoroughly tested on their computers in a live environment then you might have something there and ipads are toys yes I said it toys that haven't been put to the test just because Steve Jobs says there's an app for that doesn't make the app not blow up the database.

Re:Two things (1)

Idbar (1034346) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125984)

2) If consumer devices users weren't so trusted and ran anything that crosses their eyes (trojans included), no device would be locked.

Re:Two things (4, Insightful)

White Flame (1074973) | more than 3 years ago | (#37126016)

To expand on #1, touch tablets are decent for information consumption, but not content creation. And even in information consumption, tablets are only applicable where the information can be consumed on a small, low-resolution display. I don't think, for instance, that day traders with their arrays of cheap monitors will want to limit themselves to an iPad.

Touch is a reasonably nice interface for many info browsing traversal mechanisms, though.

Re:Two things (2)

Divebus (860563) | more than 3 years ago | (#37126038)

I see a lot more iPads on the commuter trains than laptops. A lot more. They're usually people reviewing documents, some are typing on them (obviously creating something), some reading the morning news, more than half are standing up. The odd duck luzer with the laptop isn't getting anything done with his aircraft carrier sized HP concrete slab. He can't even open the screen far enough to see it. The average iPad user is probably thinking "fuck the IT department, this thing rocks". Actually, I've been told that to my face.

Re:Two things (1)

Macgrrl (762836) | more than 3 years ago | (#37126070)

I may be being naive, but sure the killer application for iPads in a corporate envirnonment is where the user needs to be mobile and use a reasonably constrained set of functions - e.g. looking up a patient's records and prescribing a course of treatment on a hopsital ward.

PCs are for operating in a fixed envirnonment with a highly varied task load?

Chicks are dumb, right, bros? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125662)

Hey...
Chicks don't like anal cuz' they poop from there.
But regular sex, they pee from there.

WTF @ INFIRIOR LOGIC.

Re:Chicks are dumb, right, bros? (1)

The Dawn Of Time (2115350) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125690)

That's why I stick to throat sex. No valid objections.

Re:Chicks are dumb, right, bros? (2)

webmistressrachel (903577) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125850)

Plenty of valid objections, actually, starting with plucking pubic hairs out of my mouth for hours afterward, and choking on them for days afterward. And don't say "I shave", I like my men hairy, thank you.

Looks like you're boned, to borrow an Americanism.

Re:Chicks are dumb, right, bros? (1)

The Dawn Of Time (2115350) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125884)

Actually I'm naturally pubeless but thanks for discriminating against me.

Re:Chicks are dumb, right, bros? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125922)

Pics or it didn't happen.

Re:Chicks are dumb, right, bros? (2)

webmistressrachel (903577) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125702)

You idiot, we don't pee from there. We pee from a tiny orifice just in front of there. Thanks for playing.

Re:Chicks are dumb, right, bros? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125782)

Just tell them its squirting and they'll walk away with a big grin on their face .... covered with piss.

Re:Chicks are dumb, right, bros? (1)

webmistressrachel (903577) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125822)

webmistressrachel Liked this. x

Re:Chicks are dumb, right, bros? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125788)

Webmistressrachel - You are SO insensitive! That's where he has to put it, it's that small, so yes, he puts it where they pee!

Dev environment (2)

SilverHatHacker (1381259) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125664)

Like someone else said on here once, let me know when those famous iPhone apps can be developed on the iPhone without bending over backwards. Real work always gets done on a real computer.

Re:Dev environment (0)

mjwx (966435) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125692)

Like someone else said on here once, let me know when those famous iPhone apps can be developed on the iPhone without bending over backwards. Real work always gets done on a real computer.

Also, more innovation will occur on PC simply because the user isn't restricted from doing what they want to.

It may not be easy to make a program on a PC do something it wasn't designed for, but it's a hell of a lot easier on a PC then it is on an iProduct.

Re:Dev environment (5, Insightful)

The Dawn Of Time (2115350) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125796)

Programming for iOS isn't especially difficult, and the Enterprise developer license doesn't involve an Apple review of the app because there is no App Store involvement, so there are essentially no restrictions. It's basically like programming a PC, because it's just a computer.

Do simple facts count as a rational rebuttal, or shall I call you a hater as well?

Re:Dev environment (3, Interesting)

fatalwall (873645) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125936)

its a lot simpler and cheaper to continue on the pc platform then to throw out your existing code base, migrate all of your reports and provide training to your staff who are lucky as it is when they turn any electronic device on.

my company evaluated all of the tablet solutions and we realized to our dismay that a windows7 pro tablet allows better security control, easier document syncing, no extra cost compared to our existing system, does not require the user to have a second device just to install os updates, allows for remote support, doesnt require a user to register an account that we would then have to manage because you know they will forget the password and the device pin if your able to find a way to force the pin.

The only thing we found that the ipad had over say the asus is battery life and about .5lbs

Apple devices are great consumer devices. In fact I am using one right now to type this. Apple does not belong in corporate America. Nor do they really care about the market. They more then love the profit margins they have with consumers.

 

Re:Dev environment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125978)

"They more then love the profit margins they have with consumers."

"then" ? No, actually the correct word is "than".

Learn to use correct English, you fucking retard.

Until you do, do not breed, there are enough idiots like you in the world already.

No, I am not joking. Idiots like you make me wish mass sterilization was practical.

Re:Dev environment (1)

mjwx (966435) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125962)

Programming for iOS isn't especially difficult, and the Enterprise developer license doesn't involve an Apple review of the app because there is no App Store involvement, so there are essentially no restrictions. It's basically like programming a PC, because it's just a computer.

Except that you still cant use Apple's hidden API's.

Or create your own services.

Ipads are nowhere in the same league as PC's running Windows or Linux beacuse Apple has built restrictions into the operating.

Yep, my company has worked on Ipad projects, all three of them lost money because the sales drones (Apple Fanboys) promised the clients that the Ipad could do what it cant. Jailbreaking them was out of the question and creating persistent services was not supported.

Re:Dev environment (1)

webmistressrachel (903577) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125712)

That would be me. The ensuing discussion focussed on the frustration felt by owners of the Nokia N900, a more powerful and interesting platform than any iDevice but underpromoted and overpriced by retailers and networks.

Re:Dev environment (1)

mirix (1649853) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125842)

I'm not sure what is wrong with nokia these days. moving trainwreck, quite a shame.

Make awesome real linux phone, fail to market it.

Then switch to WP7, how disappointing. At the same time basically kill symbian. Although symbian is pretty quirky, being a ground up phone OS and therefore having a week of battery life was a nice feature.

I was looking forward to a whole bunch of maemo devices. :(

Re:Dev environment (1)

pnot (96038) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125896)

I'm not sure what is wrong with nokia these days.

Simple answer: Stephen Elop.

RIP Nokia, I'll miss you.

Re:Dev environment (2)

sunderland56 (621843) | more than 3 years ago | (#37126092)

Real work gets done with a real keyboard. Sure, tablets are "cool", but try typing quickly on one without looking. For 12 hours straight.

And last I checked, a tablet doesn't have any of the typical vi/compiler/linker/debugger toolset, or even a decent terminal and ssh to connect to a real computer. But then I don't check very often, since the lack of a physical keyboard makes those tools unusable in any case.

Well, duh! (0)

Space cowboy (13680) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125670)

Ironically enough, the iPad can be "opened up" to the end user because it's locked down in terms of what it can do. The PC is sufficiently versatile that it has far more possibility for mischief / catastrophic error. IT departments can be reasonably sure that an iPad app won't do much harm (they're *mostly* content-consuming) whereas PC applications are less secure, more capable (and therefore more dangerous) and more available (any potential miscreant is more likely to find a PC knocking around the ethernet than an iPad).

It's a simple matter of risk-assessment. The iPad's design and usage lend it to trusting users more.

Simon.

Re:Well, duh! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125770)

Exactly, but it won't last. Users will break it, even if it's a light switch, toaster oven, whatever. Even as a sysadmin, we're guilty if not in our own field (not that unlikely!) then in many others. The benefit to lockdown is not control, but reliability. If business functionality is preserved, that is better than 1-3 months of "improved" productivity followed by 6 months of mysterious virus removal, mysterious app incompatibilities, i.e. home machine stuff. Users CAN find software that is innovative, but they as a group will also make different decisions that soon creates a heterogenous computing environment with geometrically increased support requirements i.e. issues.

Also, wake me up when any of these tablets have gigabit and a real keyboard.

Nice way to misrepresent the information (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37126058)

It's irritating to listen to people say that PC's are less secure. PC's are only considered insecure because people are easily fooled. If everyone followed safe practices then PC's would be just as secure as any device. The only reason the PC is insecure is because it doesn't restrict the user. But to say it's less secure is a stretch.

Insecurity comes from unpredictability, not being able to anticipate an attack. The more options for attack the more difficult it is to secure. This is true for all devices, not just PC's. This is why the 'i' devices and android devices aren't as much of a risk, because they come pre-locked-down. I remember when I got my first 'smart' phone I was very underwhelmed almost to the point where I felt as though I had been cheated. The device was locked down so I could barely do anything. I've learned to deal with it somewhat, but I still cant do half of what I want to, or what I know my phone is capable of. That is where the security of the device lies, not in better programmed apps. The apps on the phone or pad are just as secure, in fact they employ a lot of the same methods to secure the apps that PC's use. The simple fact is that a system is only as secure as the programmer anticipates. If the programmer forgets or is ignorant of even one possible attack, then every other piece of security is useless.

If you want to trust iPad users more then go ahead, but I won't. Hacked OS, faked signatures, or even imitation side-loaded apps can easily infiltrate your network. I'll stick with the tried and true system if trusting no one, in that world PC's, tablets, and phones are all equals.

We Already Know (2, Insightful)

Kenshin (43036) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125674)

First: The iPad is generally a media consumption machine. I thought we'd already agreed on that.

Second: You're preaching to the choir. Or is this just an article meant to reassure us about our opinion?

Wrong, repeating myth (2, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125784)

First: The iPad is generally a media consumption machine. I thought we'd already agreed on that.

Only Apple Haters agreed on promoting that talking point.

In reality it's quite wrong; Even ignoring the obvious creation tools such as Garage Band, a billion drawing programs and things like iMovie, there are so many word processors and note taking apps that people make heavy use of every day... when you can easily work on screen as it is, with a stylus, or with any USB or bluetooth keyboard why would the iPad not be a good solution for day to day note taking?

All the people that carry laptops around to meetings all day could easily do just as well with an iPad, and in fact better because they could go a day without charging and have a more compact system.

Second: You're preaching to the choir.

As in: Repeating the Group Think Mantra than the iPad MUST NOT SUCCEED even if (or especially if) it is easier for end users to use. After all, a device that is mostly contained and requires no maintenance also requires less IT staff...

Re:Wrong, repeating myth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125862)

Actually a MacBook Air is much better suited as a meeting companion.. typing anything meaningful on an iPad in a reasonable amount of time is still futile. And, if you're going to pair the iPad with a keyboard then you may as well use a laptop... preferably a MacBook Air :-)

Re:Wrong, repeating myth (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 3 years ago | (#37126064)

Actually a MacBook Air is much better suited as a meeting companion.. typing anything meaningful on an iPad in a reasonable amount of time is still futile. And, if you're going to pair the iPad with a keyboard then you may as well use a laptop... preferably a MacBook Air :-)

Speaking as someone who regularly takes a MacBook Air to meetings... I agree with you. The air may be twice the weight of an iPad, but at three pounds it's light enough that you don't really notice it (the thinness may have something to do with that as well).

Re:Wrong, repeating myth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125874)

I've always suspected you were a marketing manager. Now I'm sure of it. Only an idiot who doesn't create anything of significance would define creation as "day-to-day note taking."

Re:Wrong, repeating myth (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125966)

It's not what I do these days but there are a lot of people (even technical people) that have need of taking notes almost every day. Have you ever worked at a large company before?

Re:Wrong, repeating myth (5, Insightful)

realmolo (574068) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125878)

It doesn't require less IT staff. It requires the same amount, if not more.

The iPad doesn't exist in a vacuum. It still has to be managed, which isn't particularly simple since it's so locked down. And since basically NO custom business apps run on it, that means that most iPad users are going to be using Terminal Services (or similar) to get anything done. Unless apps are written to run on the iPad, or run via a web page. But that's unlikely in most businesses.

So..considering all that, what's the real advantage of an iPad for business? Well, it's light and the battery lasts forever, and it's easier to carry than a laptop. That's ALL. In every other way, it's inferior.

That's why IT departments hate it. It's basically a big iPhone, but people want to use it to replace their notebook. Ugh.

Re:Wrong, repeating myth (3, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125950)

It still has to be managed, which isn't particularly simple since it's so locked down.

I can tell you are in IT because only an IT person would insist locking down only counts if THEY locked it down.

In reality the iPad is made for people who have to get by with NO IT DEPARTMENT, Which means it has to be as secure as IT would make it with no user intervention.

Well, it's light and the battery lasts forever, and it's easier to carry than a laptop. That's ALL.

That's All?

That's EVERYTHING.

But you also left out far greater degree of security than any laptop, with far more secure internal storage than most laptops.

That's why IT departments hate it. It's basically a big iPhone, but people want to use it to replace their notebook. Ugh.

IT: Screwing over the needs of the business since the dawn of time for sometimes marginal and often negative gain.

When IT gains power, get ready for the company to ossify rapidly and proceed to get nothing done.

Re:Wrong, repeating myth (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37126074)

Well, it's light and the battery lasts forever, and it's easier to carry than a laptop. That's ALL.

That's All?

That's EVERYTHING.

Are you fucking retarded? Why buy an ipad when my nokia 3210 does 'EVERYTHING'? You could have rebutted with rational arguments, there actually are quite a few, but instead he pushed you to your emotional response, which - from a religious Apple fan - is pretty much exactly what you wrote, a badly thought-out obviously moronic response.

Re:Wrong, repeating myth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125948)

All the people that carry laptops around to meetings all day could easily do just as well with an iPad

If you're taking any meaningful amount of notes that is completely untrue, you are much better off with a Macbook air, Samsung series 9 or some other light/thin notebook.

Re:Wrong, repeating myth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125960)

All the people that carry laptops around to meetings all day could easily do just as well with an iPad, and in fact better because they could go a day without charging and have a more compact system....

Only PC Haters agreed on promoting that talking point.

There are plenty of examples of PCs that have longer battery life and better portability than Apple devices -like many from Asus that last 13h+ and weigh less!
I'll concede that (with an adapter) the iPad can accept any decent keyboard you want, but don't try to sell me on the stylus because the resolution of the iPad and it's stylus is horrific. You can not write normal size print with it, which means you can only fit a couple words at a time on the screed. The iPad stylus is more like a crayon than a pen.

Re:Wrong, repeating myth (2)

rtb61 (674572) | more than 3 years ago | (#37126002)

Not only is the iPad and content machine (licence fee based) it is only a 2nd rate content machine.

Screen real estate limits it severely as does processing power. The more screen real estate you have go to work with, the easier creativity is. Working within fifteen inches is tight, 17 is easier and guess what keeps the desktop going 24 inches and up.

Only real fanbois think you work on spreadsheets, documents and drawings, on an iPad, compared to the ease of a full keyboard, mouse, generally 50% bigger screens running 25% higher resolution, with more video ram than the iPad has main memory, let alone real storage capacity.

i(bloody)Movie seriously how marketdroid lame can you get,. Yep all the Hollywood moguls are going to be doing their movie editing on an iPad. Movies, hmm, everyone else going big screen TV(any are now coming out as internet devices based around the PCs model) but you prefer you iPad, ok, fine, not a problem at all.

Re:Wrong, repeating myth (0)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 3 years ago | (#37126094)

Only real fanbois think you work on spreadsheets, documents and drawings, on an iPad, compared to the ease of a full keyboard, mouse, generally 50% bigger screens running 25% higher resolution, with more video ram than the iPad has main memory, let alone real storage capacity.

I'm not going to argue that spreadsheets are at all easy on an iPad compared to a computer. But only a blind Apple Hater would ignore that drawing on an iPad is FAR nicer than on a computer with a mouse. It's only when you have a computer with a tablet that drawing becomes better than on an iPad, and even there it's kind of a tossup unless you have a really advanced tablet because it's so much nicer to draw directly on an image instead of being one step removed as per a tablet. I had a Wacom Cintiq for a short time basically an external monitor you can draw on), and while it was nice I found I preferred the iPad for drawing so I got rid of the Cintiq (you should see the rats nets of cables required to hook it up!).

Also along those lines, how many people have tablets larger than an iPad screen?

As for documents, the iPad screen is plenty big being about the size of a sheet of paper and certainly larger than most (paper) notebooks - a mechanism for reading and note taking that people have been using for many hundreds of years.

i(bloody)Movie seriously how marketdroid lame can you get,. Yep all the Hollywood moguls are going to be doing their movie editing on an iPad.

The sure sigh of an Apple Hater is taking arguments to ridiculous extremes. No I am not going to be making an epic hollywood blockbuster on an iPad. But for small movies or home movies, it's a really great movie editor, that again is actually easier to use in some ways than on a computer because interaction is more direct. And when the point in question is "create or consume" the FACT that the iPad has some very nice creation tools is in fact highly pertinent even if for some tasks professional results are not quite there yet.

let alone real storage capacity.

You must be editing some documents that often exceeds a GB or two per document. I've found the 32 GB iPad quite enough for a fair number of apps, some media, and all the documents I could ever produce. On my computer a Documents directory into which I've been putting word processing, spreadsheet and other text output for years has yet to come close to 4GB.

you prefer you iPad, ok, fine, not a problem at all.

Really? You seem to have quite a large problem with it. I never said anything about the iPad replacing computers generally but you seem to be all hot and bothered that an iPad could replace a computer for ANYONE, for ANY REASON, EVER.

Re:We Already Know (1)

ceoyoyo (59147) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125952)

Hey, it isn't easy to make "media" on an iPad!

There are a lot of other useful things that can be done other than writing a blog nobody reads.

First... (0)

webmistressrachel (903577) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125682)

past the post is a crap voting system. It needs reforming.

This post is Flamebait, it is a Troll, it's Offtopic and yet it is strangely Funny, Informative and Underrated after you read it all (including what's below). Mod on.

The one thing's it's NOT is a FP... there was already one post there when I clicked post. It just looks like it might be a failed FP... then it surprises you.

I'm tired. Night night.

Re:First... (1)

SilverHatHacker (1381259) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125716)

Impressive. Slashdot needs more posters like you.
It's late and I'm feeling generous.

Re:First... (1)

webmistressrachel (903577) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125750)

Hmmm... my sarcasm detector is making confused noises. Also, you're feeling generous? So, what do I get, sarcasm, or something I am yet to receive? :P

Android Tablets are more capable (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125694)

IMHO, Android tablets are a better choice than iPads for corporate use... Still doesn't replace a PC, but it's more flexible and capable.

Re:Android Tablets are more capable (1)

Locutus (9039) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125724)

don't you mean Maemo or Meego tablets because they are closer to a full GNU/Linux distribution as opposed to the Android stack on the Linux kernel?

LoB

Re:Android Tablets are more capable (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125892)

don't you mean Maemo or Meego tablets because they are closer^W to^W a full GNU/Linux distribution as opposed to the Android stack on the Linux kernel?

Re:Android Tablets are more capable (0)

The Dawn Of Time (2115350) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125738)

For 399 dollars, or in other words a pittance in financial terms, iPads can do ANYTHING the enterprise devs can dream up.

Not to throw the cold water of reason on the fires of Android fandom.

Re:Android Tablets are more capable (1)

besalope (1186101) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125806)

And for $399 you could get an even more power and versatile PC or laptop. Thanks for playing.

Re:Android Tablets are more capable (1)

The Dawn Of Time (2115350) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125866)

Well that $399 isn't the cost of the hardware, so that's not really a rebuttal. You're welcome, though.

Re:Android Tablets are more capable (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 3 years ago | (#37126076)

And for $399 you could get an even more power and versatile PC or laptop. Thanks for playing.

And those $399 laptops weigh about eight pounds - not really what most people want to be carrying around all day. But hey - thank YOU for playing.

Re:Android Tablets are more capable (2)

cforciea (1926392) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125910)

For 399 dollars, or in other words a pittance in financial terms, iPads can do ANYTHING the enterprise devs can dream up.

If by "ANYTHING" you mean checking email and editing documents all at a much slower pace than one could on a real computer, then sure. Unfortunately, I have to do real work at my job instead of wasting time playing with an iThingy and cashing in a paycheck on the backs of a bunch of poor hapless engineers, so that doesn't really work out for me.

Re:Android Tablets are more capable (1)

The Dawn Of Time (2115350) | more than 3 years ago | (#37126056)

By "anything" I mean anything a developer can convince a computer to do. You're welcome to not believe it, but your beliefs have no influence on reality, and your personal situation is far from universal no matter what that situation is.

IT locking down the PC... (4, Insightful)

Nutria (679911) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125700)

(No, I didn't RTFA.)

Being a "mainframe guy", I can't help but laugh at how PCs were brought in to break the IT stranglehold, and now after uncountabillions have been spent on virus protection and remediation (with companies still not blocking most web sites), the pendulum is now swinging back in the direction of centralized control.

Re:IT locking down the PC... (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125774)

(No, I didn't RTFA.)

Being a "mainframe guy", I can't help but laugh at how PCs were brought in to break the IT stranglehold, and now after uncountabillions have been spent on virus protection and remediation (with companies still not blocking most web sites), the pendulum is now swinging back in the direction of centralized control.

I can't help but smile at how the iPads (or any mobile devices offered on "a data plan" by telecoms) are considered as "not locked down"; also smile in the anticipation of the moment in which the only choice will be "there is a cloud supported App for that". (what is the WebOS for? why wouldn't the corporations attempt to feed you strictly via a controlled channel?).

Re:IT locking down the PC... (2)

Psychotria (953670) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125812)

(No, I didn't RTFA.)

with companies still not blocking most web sites

Umm. Right. Do you know why most companies don't block most websites? It's because: a) it's a form of centralized control and stifles employee creativity, research and, as the article states it, employee innovation; b) IT people don't know what websites need to be blocked vs those that don't. If you block every website and have a whitelist then the IT people are deciding what the employees doing unrelated need to research and look at. I don't think the IT people have any idea what the employees using their network have to do in their day-to-day work, so blocking "most web sites (sic)" is, umm, stupid.

the pendulum is now swinging back in the direction of centralized control.

You've got the entire point of the article backwards.

(No, I didn't RTFA.)

Maybe you should

Re:IT locking down the PC... (2)

Nutria (679911) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125906)

don't block most websites? It's because: a) it's a form of centralized control and stifles employee creativity, research and, as the article states it, employee innovation

What innovation is there in watching /Desperate Housewives/ at abc.go.com, playing flash games at one of the jillion on-line game sites out there or catching up on baseball scores at espn.go.com?

Re:IT locking down the PC... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37126010)

When blocked, many people will spend more time trying to bypass the block then working.

Re:IT locking down the PC... (5, Insightful)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 3 years ago | (#37126036)

I don't think the IT people have any idea what the employees using their network have to do in their day-to-day work

You're not hanging around the same kind of IT people I do then. Most of the IT people I know, have to know at least something about the job someone is doing, in order to recommend, support, show and otherwise train people how IT can enhance their job performance and productivity with technology. We may not be intimate with the details of their job, but we know way more about what they do, than they know about we do.

What we IT people do is pure magic* to these people. They have NO clue what it takes to keep 4500 computers, across 19 sites, running everyday with a staff of only 11. All they know is that it has something to do with boxes sitting under desks and flashing lights in a rack.

*Any sufficient level of technology is indistinguishable from magic. We type magical incantations into computers, and the ghosts in the machine obey us. Magic.

PCs have real software; tablets and phones don't. (0)

GerbilSoft (761537) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125704)

On PCs, you have real software available for use. On the iPad (and other tablets and smartphones), all you have are crApps (crappy apps), 99% of which are simply bloated frontends to websites. (Some of them even charge subscription fees for what would otherwise be a free site.)

Sadly, the crApp trend has started to spread to desktop systems. Most recently, this happened with Final Cut Pro X, which is now only available as a crApp - and consequently, has gotten lots of negative press. Unity on Ubuntu also calls installed software "apps" instead of applications, and it's been received pretty poorly as well.

Lock them down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125706)

I don't want to take the time figuring out how to lock down an iPad. I already have the PC figured out. Yeh, I know that not the point they are making. But we lock them down for a reason.

Re:Lock them down (1)

PPH (736903) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125840)

You don't need to lock them down. Jobs has taken care of that for you. Granted, its not as great a setup as BlackBerry has with corporate clients. They get set up with their own back office severs and can push their own suite of apps to their users. But eventually (maybe) Apple will offer something similar.

What you have done with iWhatever is outsourced your IT responsibilities to the App Store.

PC model - long in the tooth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125708)

There's too much arcane bullshit and legacy cruft accumulated over 30 years on the PC side. Dinosaurs will resist.

I guess tablets can't be an app server client (2, Insightful)

Locutus (9039) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125748)

and come on, why was it that businesses _had_ to lock down Windows PCs in the first place? Hint, it had to do with reliability and a frail OS. And don't even get me started on how new employees were "trained" to use the computer. If you only knew how the people I've heard called guru's learned to use a spreadsheet or other app you'd ask 'and why were they called guru's?'.

Sounds like someone likes his PC just a little too much and doesn't want to get left behind or have to learn a new trick.

LoB

Re:I guess tablets can't be an app server client (0)

webmistressrachel (903577) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125778)

Wow, you're next in line to the Queen herself, come and assimilate me!

No more lies, no more inefficiency caused by greed, no more insecurities, no more gender crap, wow.

Get here, now. Transwarp, transporter, I don't care.

ps love your username x

Re:I guess tablets can't be an app server client (1)

linatux (63153) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125924)

3270/5250 - there's an app for that?

Re:I guess tablets can't be an app server client (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125938)

Even without viruses, if you let users install / uninstall any application they wanted, then suddenly ensuring that every workstation in the company is up to a certain specification becomes difficult.

Secondly, a locked-down app store aside, there is nothing to prevent a trojan from being installed on *any* OS. Sure, it might be isolated to the user profile, but as we've seen with Windows viruses, most users don't seem to understand the difference anyhow. They just know that they've been virused. The fact that they were tricked into installing the virus never seems to be the issue.

There is nothing preventing Windows from going the locked-down app store route. If central IT wants to have approved applications that users can install on their own, that's already possible with existing infrastructure.

As for virus issues, I myself lockdown and whitelist applications with applocker. Maybe that makes me a horrible, bad controling IT guy since users can't install software into the user profile like Chrome. However, on the flip side, the viral infection of a user profile issue hasn't been a problem since.

Hmmm... (2)

multimediavt (965608) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125792)

[...] end-users can't install software they might find helpful in their day-to-day work or might increase efficiency in their departments.

I, personally, don't know a single IT professional that would not allow someone to install a piece of software like that. It would have to be vetted first, of course, but that would mostly be to ensure it gets installed properly and doesn't expose any backdoors. The problem is that most end-users want to install games or silly system doodads that will compromise a machine, bog it down or otherwise be inappropriate for the work place.

I do take issue with the capability argument. Sure, the current generation of tablets (I am gonna lump Androids and others in with the iPad as the hardware is almost all the same) aren't as capable as a modern, mature desktop or laptop platform. But, the rate at which these devices are evolving is significant, and I do see a very near future where a tablet is to a laptop what a laptop was to a desktop as far as a step in capability goes. I may dare say the laptop days may be numbered. It might take 10 years, but it might happen. Depends on what hardware advances come to market between then and now.

Re:Hmmm... (1)

cforciea (1926392) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125940)

It's a matter of input devices. A keyboard probably averages triple the input speed of a touchscreen for most users, and you can't very well do anything with finger that requires nearly pixel precision, so a whole lot of image editing is right now. Sure, you can add a mouse and keyboard as peripherals to a tablet, but at that point are you really seeing us move to tablets or just to laptops with detachable input devices?

The only way I can see tablets closer to the current format taking over for anybody wanting to do real work is if we get new input devices that aren't just touchscreens.

Re:Hmmm... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37126088)

"I, personally, don't know a single IT professional that would not allow someone to install a piece of software like that."

You've obviously never worked at a bank/securities company.

PC have bigger screens and multi screen (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125810)

PC have bigger screens and multi screen

Now try to take a work flow that is good on a big / more then 1 screen and try to take it to the ipad.

Pc's have better multi tasking then Ipad (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125824)

Pc's have better multi tasking then Ipad.

Like for 1 thing BEING ABLE HAVE MORE THEN 1 APP on screen at the same Time.

Re:Pc's have better multi tasking then Ipad (1)

zootie (190797) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125946)

Being devil's advocate (I love my PC with 3 monitors, I can understand why users like the concept of the iPad -ie portabiliy and surface simplicity-, but wouldn't want to have one w/o having a PC nearby to overcome its limitations when you have to do something serious).

A pro-Cloud, pro iPad as a replacement argument would be that you can always connect to a remote system to do your work, and you can have multiple iPads (one for each screen/data that is relevant to your work, each connected to different apps/windows). You could have a stack of iPads on your desk, and just cycle through them as you are looking at the data (think a Star Trek episode with a desk full of pads).

It's a matter of how dumbed down is the interface to the apps you need, how polished is the process to enter data and that would allow you to jump between steps by just tapping a couple times and moving between tablets (or how easy it would be to connect to multiple apps on the same remote control session). IMO, a mouse click away (or Alt+Tab) is far easier than moving around in your chair and picking up another screen, but people that are more tactile (ie, "paper lovers") might prefer this approach.

It would be expensive having multiple tablets, but probably nor much more expensive as a 3+ multi-LCD setup a few years ago (before LCD prices plummeted), and prices will continue to go down. The real expense is that the cloud/server side is easy enough to use so you it can be used in this manner. It's just a matter of how much is the organization whiling to pay for creativity.

Re:Pc's have better multi tasking then Ipad (1)

ceoyoyo (59147) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125980)

The iPad has integrated spell check though.

So? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125846)

If you don't like the iPad don't use it. Considering how bad they are for user innovation, I'm sure they will be dumped in favor of traditional PC's *sigh*

iPad's "success" (-1, Troll)

qxcv (2422318) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125848)

If it was tl;dr: TFA is a poorly structured rant which is trying to say something, but I'm not sure what. In response to Lewis' "factors contributing to the iPad's success":

1) As anybody who uses an SSD or suspend-to-disk will testify, almost all computers have the capability to boot in 30 seconds (not counting DHCP or NTP - they're both rather slow).
2) The iPad is no smaller than a netbook. I've seen people attempting to use iPads on public transport, and they look rather awkward and out of place.
3) Yes, it's very, VERY shiny. To their credit, Apple also has an excellent focus on PR and advertising.
4) The iPad DOES have a filesystem. It's called HFS.
5) All the software on *my* computer is monetarily zero-cost, and source code is available for everything on my system BUT the graphics card drivers (which are still "free as in beer"). I'm still as productive (if not more productive) than the equivalent Windows "power user".
6) How is "native apps" a selling point? Most PC OSes can do this, Android can do this, WP7 can do this. What's Bob's point?

IMO the only valid factor is 3). Apple tells consumers what they want, and consumers buy it. There's no "user innovation", just aggressive marketing.

Re:iPad's "success" (1)

The Dawn Of Time (2115350) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125926)

Apple tells consumers what they want, and consumers buy it.

I have to wonder, do you actually believe something like that? Is your opinion of yourself so high that you believe only people who think like you are "real" in some sense?

the Ipad does not have Ethernet (2)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125870)

the Ipad does not have Ethernet and PC have bigger HDD's as well.

and in some places Wifi does not work that well or is a security issue. 3g is high cost and slow speed at times.

Also for big work loads with big files you want to do work locally or have a good fast link to the sever.

For laptop uses having a big HDD makes it easy to keep big files with out having to be tied to the cloud over the world of WIFI on the go / 3g / 4g data cards with cost at $50+ for 5GB + $10 per GB after that.

VMware and Citrix (1)

Luminary Crush (109477) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125920)

... and several other vendors deliver desktops and apps to end-user devices remotely and increasingly efficiently. TFA is on the wrong side of history - IT will own and control the apps "locked down" and delivered remotely, device-independently. Administration of the endpoint device is a nightmare, and through VDI and app delivery endpoint management is becoming nearly irrelevant as these technologies improve. In fact, the end point becomes irrelevant - the always-on, use anywhere application service is coming (just don't say "cloud" because I'm tired of hearing it).

All your apps are belong to us.

Just wait until Windows 8 (2)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125942)

It will include IE so the CIOs can work with their intranet activeX sites and can be locked down by I.T. It will fill the disadvantages of the IPAD.

I have a feeling it will take a large hit out of the IPAD market and hard Android. It wont kill it but it will make it very popular for business executives

Innovation? (1)

PPH (736903) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125970)

If by innovation, you mean playing Angry Birds, then I'm with you.

Where I come from, innovation means coming up with something new. Which, by definition, means that there isn't something available at the App Store to do what you want.

When I can install gcc (or Eclipse) on an iPad and build a native custom app to do exactly what I need, call me.

Consoles for the Workplace (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37125982)

I grew up with commodore 64s and amigas and PCs for gaming and I always hated the rise of the consoles.
Locked down machines that the masters like Nintendo, Sega, Sony etc. would control what gets released onto your machine!

Well folks welcome to the consolification of your applications. Is it good? Is it bad? .....

See the never ending discussion between the Console and PC community - regurgitate it ad nauseum for the tablet VS PC community. You can predict headline by headline partisan reaction by partisan reaction the stupid pointless discussion, with each pundits hard won insight.

This is weak. (1, Interesting)

seifried (12921) | more than 3 years ago | (#37125992)

First, it's a sunk cost.

Just because you've dumped money into it doesn't mean you should continue. Bad money after good and all that.

Second, it's more capable.

Define capable. Can it run more programs, and is generally better for content creation type activities as opposed to simply consuming (reading email, reading web pages, etc.), well sort of. On the other hand my iPad is so small and light, has instant on, has WiFi and 3G connectivity and the battery life is such that it lives in my bag and I just pull it out to use it quickly more than I ever did when I carried my laptop. Plus because it's light and has long battery life I'm not constantly having to leave it at home to charge or give my shoulder a break. So I'd generally agree that my laptop/PC is more capable, but I don't carry it anymore so it's a moot point.

Third, your end-users are already familiar with it

So? There is a reason the iPad doesn't ship with a users manual. It doesn't need one. I found it intuitive. I gave my mother my old iPad 1, she has used PC's running DOS/Windows since the late 80's and at first asked for the manual, told here there wasn't one and that she wouldn't need it, and 2 days later she agreed with me (via email, "sent from my iPad"). She has since grown to love it.

Anecdotal sure, but this seems to be the general consensus. I think the iPad has a lot more legs int he corproate world then anyone suspects because once you get used to it, being at all mobile (even room to room) makes a PC (laptop/netbook/etc.) feel like sh*t compared to an iPad.

Power (0)

TemperedAlchemist (2045966) | more than 3 years ago | (#37126030)

It's probably because PCs can beat iPads in terms of raw power. Well that, and PCs aren't controlled by a totalitarian regime.

Re:Power (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37126104)

Well that, and PCs aren't controlled by a totalitarian regime.

Sure they are, see aforementioned IT departments mentioned above.

PC vs iPad? (1)

Stewart Lochhead (2440206) | more than 3 years ago | (#37126060)

Ok what hand on first of all that is the stupidest battle i have ever heard.

They are purely for 2 different uses really. iPad is really for consumer use and for what it does it is more convienent than a PC, purely for the fact that loading an app to do a simple task it alot easier than loading an actual computer and needing a track pad and keyboard to navigate.

If using for business i can honestly tell you if your using an iPad for working on (as in creating documents) your a nutter for it is designed for light modifying and presentation.

I know first hand if i go to a client and let them touch a keynote presentation as appose to displaying on a projector, the client will respond alot more. The iPad is lite version of a netbook that is more convenient

This battle would make more sense if you said SLATE vs PC. then yes i agree the SLATE is slow under performing and difficult to use. for what the iPad is designed to do it hits its market on the dot, only a fool would think otherwise.

Bob Lewis is full of FAIL (5, Insightful)

Whuffo (1043790) | more than 3 years ago | (#37126066)

Once again the "apples and oranges" comparison of PCs and Ipads rears it's head. True wisdom comes from understanding that they're tools that serve different needs; any comparison of a tablet (of any stripe) to a PC (of any kind) is nothing more than some idiot making noises to drive up clicks to the website.

I own one of each - and a laptop, too. Which one am I using right now? You can't tell. For short posts to a website or making notes, any one of them will serve the need. Each offers advantages and drawbacks and it's always best to choose what works for you and your tasks, not what some random commenter on this site insists is the "one true way.

Would I try to write Klines of code on the Ipad? No. Can I go mobile with the PC? No. Am I going to be away for a whole day with no chance to recharge? Notebook won't do, but an Ipad would.

What's right for you might not be right for someone else; no matter what PC you're talking about or what tablet you're talking about - they're not intended for or capable of the same tasks.

Apple makes cloudy (2)

bshensky (110723) | more than 3 years ago | (#37126084)

Stop allowing Apple to cloud up the argument by making you think that the form factor and interface is bound by definition to the UI design and feature list of the OS it runs.

Argument 1: What if the iPad could run, say, Win7 or Linux or some other OS? It adds wide-open capability, and gives way to content creation. But the form factor and UI frustrate.
Argument 2: What if there were a PC out there with a huge 32" touchscreen display and gesture UI, and it ran iOS. Could a stockbroker be happy with it?
Argument 3: What if the same PC with touchscreen display and gesture UI, and it ran Win7 or Win8 or WebOS or Cyanogenmod? How would that stockbroker feel then?
Argument 4: What would be gained by mouse-enabling an iPad? Who uses an iPad with mouse to access a PC via Remote Desktop? How is that working out for you?

Point is, if the platform were open, we would readily consider these questions, and make inroads on the answers. But Apple packages the UI, OS and form factor so well, we don't budge. Pity.

Trump Ipad (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37126096)

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ipads are a success for me. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#37126106)

I am a proud owner of two iPads and a Xoom and a Commitva tablet. The tablet market has taken a lot of companies and geeks by surprise and they are obviously butthurt at the success. I drink Kool-Aid by the gallon and it's delicious. I also have a so called "real" computer, that is with a i7, 12 GB of RAM, 3TB hard drive and a 1080p screen but I can't take it on the toilet, or to bed with me or on the train or on holiday, and even netbooks are awkward because they have the non removable keyboard in the way.

iPads, along with iPhones and iPods made Apple really successful, and Slashdot users wished it was them instead but they were too busy trying to edit their text files on their Linux boxes to get their wifi to work.

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